Estrogen replacement while on Coumadin

[COLLEEN S]

My gyne wont prescribe estrogen replacement (ERT, surgical hyster 1999) now that I am on Warfarin. I dont understand her way of thinking on this. Is there anything out there (please dont say black cohosh or soy or remefin) tried them all, that works that is OTC? When I go to the new cardio on May 13, I will ask her also what she thinks of this. Also, anyone have hot flashes while undergoing warfarin therapy? Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[Ross]

http://www.warfarinfo.com/estrogens.htm

Be very careful playing with homeotherapy. Most all of that stuff has an effect on INR. I don't understand your gynes way of thinking other then she doesn't understand Coumadin.

 

[zipper2]

Colleen,im on depo shots for endometriosis,course had endo
all my life,i stopped a couple years ago due to my age,my heart
and all that good stuff
I had surgery jan22 09 and BOOM last cardio appt,i threw a clot
known for my endo,but was nice while it lasted and now since
ohs i resulted in now 2 mech. valves and back on the depo shots.

I just went through mvs and honestly my body cannot take another
cut or suggestion of hysterctomy,sides i told my cardio a
hysterectomy for endo is in my oppinion a bandaid solution for me.

He told me i couldnot have the surgery anyway,my body is black
cloud already and i'm sure it would kill me too,so the big risk
for me is the shot of depo i take the chance of stroke with each
shot as he told me,but what else can i do other than wait this
endo out through menopause,then it will leave me.......OH THE
CURSE us woman have to deal with,only time i felt good was
when i was pregnant cus it removes endo symptoms.

Men are so lucky (all which are reading this) however i still
maintain if men had babies the'yd be one family units
k typed it in here cus i know you guys are reading this lol
not cus i'm jealous,you guys don't have to deal with all this

But Colleen,i donot think hormones are good and i can tell
you they have diagnosed me with severe leg pain from the
last shot and sometimes as i clot i have to reshot an injection
sooner than i should.

Believe me i'm a time bomb waiting to happen with these shots
But everyones different and this is me and i am 48 years old .

Just afew things for you to think about cus i've been told i can
stroke or clot over the injections,but what other alternative
do i have at this point.
Be sure to dicuss it with your cardio and Doc's so you
understand everything,this is like i said just me.

All the best.

zipper2 (DEB)

 

[sue943]

The day before my surgery my cardiologist told me that I couldn't take my HRT any more and said to prevent loss of bone density there were other drugs if necessary, just no more HRT. This particular cardiologist is extremely eminent.

For me it really didn't matter as I was 57 and had been on it for about 20 years and there was the upside that I no longer had to have a monthly bleed - quite a bonus.

 

[BigOwl]

I went through menopause (lasted for about 5 years) with no therapy at all. Hot flashes are a nuisance, but nothing I couldn't handle; same with night sweats. When the news about HRT came out, I was vindicated completely.

The physiological responses to menopause are difficult for some, but possibly unnecessarily so (we may be culturally conditioned to see it as a negative, when for many of us it can become a kind of rite of passage). I was earth mama for so many years (breast fed both kids long-term) that the idea of taking something to stave off or avoid a natural process seemed alien and I didn't even consider it. I know it's different for artificially induced menopause, but I'd look for ways to deal with the symptoms through yoga or something--and with all of the crap we have to dump into our bodies to combat other stuff, it would seem like a good thing to avoid adding anything else to the mix. I need a bumper sticker that says "Hot Flashes Can Be Fun" or something--but a glass of ice water is about all you really need, along with a sense of humor.

 

[COLLEEN S]

Thanks for the replies. I am doing progesterone cream right now, but I'm afraid to do it long term.

 

[Gail in Ca]

My GP had me on HRT for 3 yrs and I'm on coumadin. She said the risk for HRT is blood clots and the coumadin essentially takes that away. I was so happy.
Then, I got a brain bleed, staph infection, endocarditis, and finally my 3rd OHS. I stopped the HRT while in the hospital cause they didn't have the one I was on and I didn't bother having my husband bring mine in. Bad move! Now, after surgery I ask my GP about going back on it and she now doesn't think it's a good idea cause now I have had a bleed! Crapola! The hot flashes are bad. It has helped a bit to take flaxseed oil capsules, but not like the HRT, Boo Hoo! The flaxseed didn't seem to change my INR reading. I only take one a day but, I'm thinking of increasing it.
Gail

 

[lbecker]

Colleen, just for hormones I go to a group called Sotto Pelle they give you bioidentical
hormones in pellets under the skin and then give you an oral progesterone tablet to
take. I have done this for a little over a year and have been pleased. I have been
on Warfarin since Sept. 08. My PC doc. does not like it at all, yet when I speak
to Sotto Pelle, they say that being naturally balanced out is not bad even with heart
conditions. They say some of their best support comes from cardiologist specifically
in the East. Their web address is www.sottopelletherapy.com if you have any
interest in contacting them or looking it up. Not promoting anything just sharing
my experience. Laura

 

[BigOwl]

My GP had me on HRT for 3 yrs and I'm on coumadin. She said the risk for HRT is blood clots and the coumadin essentially takes that away. I was so happy.
Then, I got a brain bleed, staph infection, endocarditis, and finally my 3rd OHS. I stopped the HRT while in the hospital cause they didn't have the one I was on and I didn't bother having my husband bring mine in. Bad move! Now, after surgery I ask my GP about going back on it and she now doesn't think it's a good idea cause now I have had a bleed! Crapola! The hot flashes are bad. It has helped a bit to take flaxseed oil capsules, but not like the HRT, Boo Hoo! The flaxseed didn't seem to change my INR reading. I only take one a day but, I'm thinking of increasing it.
Gail

Gail, remember that hot flashes are temporary and don't last very long (even when they're frequent). They're really uncomfortable when you first start experiencing them, but shouldn't be unbearable--just a pain in the everywhere. Gradually you should get used to them and be able to simply blow 'em off. I used to have a sign above my desk that said "REAL women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges."

I really do think that a lot of what women suffer during menopause is culturally induced, reflecting a youth-centered society. Menopause means you're no longer a child-bearer, it signals a downhill slide, it means you're not sexy any more, you're getting old--or whatever. However, there are cultures in which menopause is actually celebrated: freedom from pregnancy, enhanced sexual relationship with a partner, freedom from dealing with menses (at least eventually). My grandmother was my best example, because she refused any HRT when she was going through "The Change," much to the dismay of her doctors. She said it was a real pain, but when it was over she felt that she'd actually accomplished something. I followed her example, but got through a couple of bad stretches with yoga and Lamaze breathing (which I have done for stress ever since training for the birth of my first child). It helps not to tense up every time you feel one coming on, breathe through it, and then let it go.

Sorry if this sounds preachy; but our foremothers made it through menopause without drugs, and it's likely that many of us can do it too as long as we don't get too bound up in the discomfort. Good luck with whatever you use, and know that within a couple of years things will be much better.

 

[COLLEEN S]

Wow. Thanks to all of you. I will check out the pellet site. For some, maybe a glass of water will work, or breathing, but I tell you I get DRENCHED in sweat when I have flashes. My old gyne told me mine are so bad from having had hyster surgery at 39. Surgical menopause is hell! But I'm grateful I was taken off of it after reading about the brain bleeds! Yikes!

 

[lance]

You might find this interesting .................

You might find this interesting .................

or may be you won't but here goes.

I refused to take HRT because of philosophical reasons about it's manufacture. There is absolutely nothing on this earth could change my mind. Everybody's different though.

About three years ago I developed a condition and the gynecologist I was referred to tried to push HRT. The discussion became heated as I held my ground. The only solution he offered was HRT or some sort of a estrogen-releasing ring. He has hundreds of patients on it yada, yada, yada, etc. My feelings were totally ignored. The surgery I needed was performed a short time later by someone knowing better than to argue with me over HRT. I can see it all now. Trips back and forth to his office for this or that, prescription renewals, etc.

I'm surprised that clots would form with someone taking warfarin. Apparently I'm very wrong. So there is a second reason for opting out. I've never taken HRT and am just fine.

 

[catwoman]

Wow. Thanks to all of you. I will check out the pellet site. For some, maybe a glass of water will work, or breathing, but I tell you I get DRENCHED in sweat when I have flashes. My old gyne told me mine are so bad from having had hyster surgery at 39. Surgical menopause is hell! But I'm grateful I was taken off of it after reading about the brain bleeds! Yikes!

My hysterectomy was at age 34.
I didn't like taking HRT (premarin), so I stopped after perhaps 2 years, which would have been 22 years ago. I really don't have much memory of hot flashes from going cold turkey, probably because it would have been in a fairly short time, compared to someone whose hormones are gradually waning. Much easier, although it's like slamming on the brakes.
I would encourage anyone having a hysterectomy at an early age who bypasses HRT to take one of the several Rxes for osteoporosis.

 

[LUVMyBirman]

My heart surgeon and card forbid HRT and or hormores of amy kind. My new GYN believes I can take it. He wanted to place me on Depo or birth control to help symptoms.

Too afraid of clotting. Regardless of the anticoagulation...it can happen. I have endo and ovarian cysts that burst from time to time. Thus far, they have absorbed. My decision is to endure the pain (which is intermittent 2 weeks a month) no invasive surgery. The risks outweigh the benefits in my mind. Yes, I would love not dealing with this stuff...but, infection or worse is always in the back of my mind. The only thing that would change my mind would be a life threatening event! In which I am tested frequently for.

 

[Bina]

.......

I refused to take HRT because of philosophical reasons about it's manufacture. There is absolutely nothing on this earth could change my mind. Everybody's different though........

So many people don't know where hormone replacement ingredients come from. A majority of hormones come from PMU farms.
PMU stands for Pregnant Mare Urine.....it sounds simple enough, but it is SO much more than that.
I'm with Lance, and will never take HRT derived from PMU.

 

[ShezaGirlie]

There are alternatives..

There are alternatives..

Only Premarin and PremPro (another Wyeth-Ayerst product that combines Premarin and progestin in one medication) are produced from equine (horse) estrogens. Many of the alternative estrogens available are priced comparable to Premarin.

Estraderm (estradiol transdermal system) is a clear plastic patch that releases small amounts of estradiol (hormone produced by ovaries) through the skin into the bloodstream.

Estrace (estradiol tablets) is derived from soybeans and Mexican yams.

Estratest is a combination of esterified (combined) estrogens and methyltestosterone, based on yam and soyplant and then synthesized to resemble human estrogen.

Estratab consists of esterified (combined) estrogens. Up to 15 percent of Estratab contains synthetic equine estrogens.

Ortho-est (estropipate tablets), derived from soybeans or Mexican yams, is identical to human estrone in its estrogen composition.

 

[COLLEEN S]

I have just had it with these hot flashes. I was dripping sweat just after showering today. I get soaked...I need to see another gyne or something...not an easy thing when you live basically on an island and have an HMO!

 

[pamela]

I remember my mom sweating with the windows open and the cold north wind blowing through the house on dark December evenings when it was twenty below. I don't have the same flashes but I have something going on with the ovaries and uterus that caused a major bleed last month prompting a trip to the ER and a 4 day prescription for Cyklokapron (tranexamic acid). Thankfully, I haven't had another episode and I'm seeing the gyne in a couple of weeks.

Menopause is certainly a stage that is best passed quickly, I think, and even if I could, I wouldn't take HRT simply because they sometimes prolong the process. The risks of thromboses far outweigh any discomfort I may suffer as I try to age gracefully. So, wear absorbant night shirts, use flannel bedding and don't forget to invest in a really good air conditioner that will freeze the family out even in summer.

You know that many drugs cause sweating and night sweats are a common symptom of valve disease or cardiac problems; not to mention that some people have them for a few weeks following OHS, too? If you choose to avoid HRT for all of the good reasons to do so, please ensure your doctor helps you prevent osteoporosis through supplements.

Take Heart,
Pamela

 

[COLLEEN S]

Well, it's now a year and a half since my last post on this subject, but here I go. I decided that the hot flashes that I was experiencing were making me feel much worse that if I was on HRT. I put myself back on HRT. The headaches, hot flashes, hair growth where hair is not supposed to grow, vaginal tearing and possibility of osteoporosis were more debilitating to me that a slight chance of clotting. My INR, checked at home, has been more stable since being on HRT!

 

[Protimenow]

Earlier posts mentioned bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. The bioidentical estrogens (bi-est) are derived from Mexican Yams, and are functionally identical to the hormones we naturally make. (Yes, even men make estrogen). The progesterone is often available in a capsule - also derived from vegetable sources. NO ANIMALS ARE INJURED IN THE MANUFACTURE OF BIOIDENTICALS (although it's a different story for those poor Mexican yams).

The reports that many doctors are scared by related to the use of Premarin and other animal-derived estrogens that the body couldn't deal with. Bioidenticals are the same hormones that our bodies naturally produce (but produced more of when we were younger). They aren't the shock to the body that animal-derived hormones are, and are seen by our bodies as the same hormones we naturally make.

Suzanne Somers wrote about bioidenticals in one or more of her books - and she wrote about a woman in her 80s, who was doing fine (but still menstruating).

Bioidentical bio-est is usually available in a cream that is rubbed on the inside of the arm. There's a company in Las Vegas that sells the cream OTC, by mail order. My wife used the cream until we were able to get it, by prescription, from a local compounding pharmacy. She also gets her progesterone from the same pharmacy. If you find an MD who is willing to prescribe the bioidenticals, you should strongly consider giving them a try.

According to what I've read, the clotting that scares doctors away from HRT was a result of premarin. Bioidentical estrogens don't stress your liver and other organs, should be no more likely to cause clotting than the estrogens your body naturally makes, and your doctor's concerns about clotting should be minimized.

 

[Cris N]

Suzanne Somers wrote about bioidenticals in one or more of her books - and she wrote about a woman in her 80s, who was doing fine (but still menstruating).

Yeah, Suzanne's right up there with Kevin Trudeau :eek2::biggrin2: