Coumadin and Alcohol (Paper & Fire)

[Moo]

I am wondering about the effects of alcohol on one's INR. My Cardiologists Test people say it will increase my INR for a few days if I have more than 2 and my PCP says it will increase it after I 'break the seal'. I won't get my home machine for a few more weeks, so I can't do my own experiments. I miss having the cow valve and it seems that everything will affect my INR but if I can have more than 2 beers (read 5 or 6) in one night just once a month it would make this whole coumadin thing much more tolerable. Any real world info would be much appreciated.

My initial thoughts are as follows: If alcohol increases my INR, then how come when I was in college I could drink 20+ beers in one day and never had to worry about my INR... Does alcohol add an exponent or something to coumadin.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[Ross]

Rich alcohol will cause a rise, but you'd have to drink alot and drink alot everyday. If your going to have 2, have 2, but have 2 everyday so that you can keep your dose the same. Consistency is the key. If your a big drinker and are prone to stomach ulcers, you could be messing with danger. Once a bleed gets going in your GI tract, you can lose a lot of blood very quickly.

Go visit Al Lodwicks site for tons of information. Here is the alcohol link:

http://www.warfarinfo.com/alcohol.htm

 

[Guest]

You never took your INR while in college!! In college you were worried about getting a KEG - now you worry about getting an EKG.

Alcohol affects the INR by slowing the metabolism of warfarin.

Drink six and then go see if there is blood in your bowlel movement. This is what you are going to do anyway. Just remember that after each birthday, your tolerance will go down.

I saw the woman today who has a Broncos party during every game. She doesn't want to be the only one sober in a bunch of drunks so she has about 6 beers during each game. When the game is on Sunday she, she bleeds from her rectum on Tuesday. That is her tolerance level. Harley-Davidson says that they have the world's most valuable logo because people will tattoo it on their butt. However, I think that the Broncos rank right up there because bleeding from your butt has to be a close second.

I've never seen anyone have trouble from two drinks. I have seen trouble from six in one day.

 

[Moo]

...

...

I don't drink often, once or twice a month. I have 12 alcoholics in my family, and it comes too easily for me to drink everyday. I like to be in control 99% of the time, but the other 1% I like to have fun .

You never took your INR while in college!!

I had a tissue valve in college (read No Coumadin), so that would mean my INR was raised by the alcohol regardless of the presence of coumadin???

Alcohol affects the INR by slowing the metabolism of warfarin.

If i'm not mistaken, coumadin works by blocking (or something) vitamin K, therefore raising the clotting time. If alcohol inhibits the metabolism of coumadin, that would lower the effectiveness, and therefore the clotting time.

This confuses me even more...

 

[Moo]

Correction

Correction

My Cardiologists Test people say it will increase my INR for a few days if I have more than 2 and my PCP says it will increase it after I 'break the seal'.

...my PCP says it will decrease after I 'break the seal'.

 

[Guest]

Inhibiting the metabolism of warfarin means that it stays in your body longer therefore increasing the INR.

Alcohol alone has no effect on the INR. It is only through warfarin that it does this.

Your next question will be - can I just not take the warfarin on the day that I amgoing to drink? It is not that simple. It is the dose that you took 2 or 3 days ago that is having the effect today. Warfarin is very slowly metabolized. That is one of the reasons that it is so difficult to control. Think of the INR as a gas gauge that tell how much gas you put in 2 or 3 days ago - you are never quite sure depending on what else went in your mouth.

 

[Moo]

So far, so good.

So far, so good.

Alcohol alone has no effect on the INR. It is only through warfarin that it does this.

That was my main question. done.

Now bigger and better things...

1) How long does alcohol affect my INR, one day, two days, etc.?

2) How long does a salad affect my INR, one day, two days, etc.?

I like equations and systematic approaches, but it seems after numerous decades, coumadin is still a guessing game. Once I get my machine I will conduct numerous experiments (in the name of science ) to try create and a metaphorical GUT (Grand Unified Theory) of Comadin based on trial and hemmorage.

 

[PapaHappyStar]

Once I get my machine I will conduct numerous experiments (in the name of science ) to try create and a metaphorical GUT (Grand Unified Theory) of Comadin based on trial and hemmorage.

And then we would argue that this would be more useful than a Grand Unified Theory of nature...

 

[Blanche]

Of cabbages and brass tacks

Of cabbages and brass tacks

Rich:
You are trying to quantify the impossible. Your time might be better spent in searching the board--reference section and especially Al Lodwick's materials. It is important for you to gain an understanding of anticoagulation and how it affects you. There are no easy answers, no simple equations. You have a long and most probably happy and successful life ahead of you, especially if you learn how to take the best care of yourself. Understanding how your meds work is a good step in that direction. Good luck.
Blanche

 

[Guest]

It will be less frustrating if you set out to find proof that Einstein was wrong.

As I have written before engineers go nuts when they have to take warfariin.

The simplest method is don't let the INR get below 0.2 units under your range and don't go over 5.0. The rest of it is all based on trying to keep in this range.

 

[William]

Yea, I wish the mixture of Coumadin and alcohol was more passive. I like to drink. Love wine (been to the wine country in California twice) and love beer (been to THE Oktoberfest in Munich 5 times). It's really not much of a problem for me to limit the nightly dose to 2 drinks, sometimes 2 and a half, I just wish there was a better drug because I do like to overdo it sometimes. How about no drug at all? Has there been any research into making the valves with a synthetic material, more durable then animal's yet would not cause the blood to clot? Will

 

[tommy]

I limit myself to 2 drinks because if I have 3, I'll likely have 4, then 5, etc, etc. I'm not interested in getting rip roaring drunk and would probably fall donw and crack my skull if I did. I'm often the designated driver which is fine with me.

I don't drink within 3 days of an INR test. It probably won't matter, but why mess with it.

 

[Baldrick]

Don't take me as a medical authority, but you asked for 'real world info'. I've been on Coumadin just over 4 years now. If you're wondering:

"if I can have more than 2 beers (read 5 or 6) in one night just once a month it would make this whole coumadin thing much more tolerable"

I can tell you that I do and have (knock on wood) never had any adverse (INR-related) effect.

 

[RCB]

any research into making the valves with a synthetic material, more durable then animal's yet would not cause the blood to clot? Will

For more than fifty years

 

[Moo]

A good start...

A good start...

Don't take me as a medical authority, but you asked for 'real world info'.

That's what I wanted, thank you.

 

[Guest]

The On-X valve inventors were trying to make a valve that was so smooth that it would not cause clots. They may have but (couldn't prove it) so the FDA didn't allow it to be approved for use without warfarin.

 

[William]

Is that what causes the cloting with the artificial valves, the surface roughness? Will

 

[RCB]

Like to read for hours and hours?

Like to read for hours and hours?

The On-X valve inventors were trying to make a valve that was so smooth that it would not cause clots. They may have but (couldn't prove it) so the FDA didn't allow it to be approved for use without warfarin.

About a month before mu surgery last June, I wrote to Carbomedics about
the claims that were made on the On-X valve website about the On-X valve. Carbomedics replied that although the surface looks smoother, it is not- it is just puffing by the sales force. As Al said, if they had proof it would be in their statement to the FDA and they don't make it because they can't prove it.

There are many factors involved in the clotting process and many research papers on the subject. Researcher even differ on the initiating factor. Real quickly, you get in the organic chemistry on a molecular level.
If you enjoy that kind of reading, there is plenty to read! Have fun

 

[Rain]

I always limit myself to one or two..........

I always limit myself to one or two..........

Unless I want another one.

 

[Granbonny]

For me, it depends on how long Sunday night VR. chat lasts Right? JimL and Billy Bonnie