You have a murmur

[Karlynn]

A famous Chicago area artist died over the weekend. He was 67 and his daughter found him dead in his bed in the morning. There wasn't a cause of death reported, but the son said "He supposedly had a heart murmur." I found myself wondering if anyone had bothered to diagnose what was causing the murmur.

It seems like we see people report here all the time that "years ago they were told they had a murmur". Now I'm wondering how many physicians tell patients that, do an EKG, find it to be normal and assume the murmur is benign, going no further in the process? I've had 2 friends who have said to me "Oh, I was told I had a murmur." When asked what type, neither knew because no further testing had been done. It simply amazes me. When I told them that they needed to get an echo, they asked why. I tell them "Because I had a murmur too." They suddenly connected their murmur to my experiences and both got echos. Both had MVP and still don't have trouble to this day, thank goodness. But at least they have enough information to know that they need to premedicate for dental work.

I guess there isn't too much of a point to this post, other than I still am mystified at how some physicians drop the ball in diagnosing valve disease.

 

[Nancy]

I've also heard this many times from various friends. It puzzles me as well. Years ago, I didn't have a clue about such things, but now after all that Joe has been through and after reading thousands of posts here, I agree that ALL murmurs should be checked out for cause, and should probably be followed by a cardiologist at least each year, if it is not a worrisome thing.

One of the worst things I ever heard was a widow who was talking about her husband's death. He had thyroid problems and a murmur. He was also fatigued. His doctor kept upping his thyroid medication to counteract the fatigue. You guessed it, he passed away. I had no words to even discuss this with her. She was clueless, and I just let her think her own thoughts. No use making her feel worse.

 

[Debrinha GT]

That's the way to go!

That's the way to go!

I took my daughter Bruna to the pediatrician on Monday and she detected a murmur which she thinks is probably nothing to worry about. She told me this was the first time she heard it and to be on the safe side, asked me to get an echo done to check her mitral valve for there's a possibility of it being mitral valve prolapse. I've already arranged to take her to my cardio next Wednesday and since I'll be there anyway, I might as well get him to take a look at my valve too. You know, with all the Christmas holidays, it's better to be safe than sorry. The good thing is that it's the doctor himself who does the exam and our appointments will be soon after it so, he'll tell me right away how things are with wee Bruna and myself. I'm feeling a bit aprehensive at the moment, but I pray to God she'll be ok, and me too. Please, say a prayer for us too! Thanks!

Débora

 

[Marguerite53]

It is puzzling.

It is puzzling.

It is most unfortunate that some people do not seem to benefit from good doctors!! My murmur was detected in my late 20's. I was immediately sent to a cardiologist who did and echo and deemed it a bicuspid, prompting only premedicating. He guided me very very well, and I had echoes done every 5 years or so. It was his words echoing in my mind when my symptoms began which sent me in with complaints and now the stenosis.

I spoke once to an insurance adjuster about my coverage when I first realized the AVR was coming up. After a lengthy discussion she mentioned that she, too, had a murmur, some sort of supposed valve defect, but had never had an echo. I was practically yelling at her to convince her to go get one!!

I think some people are scared by knowledge and just want to stay in the dark and be hopeful that their luck will pull them through. Ignorance is bliss, I guess!

When will we hear about your son, Karlynn?

And Deborah. Try not to worry. Be grateful that you are so educated and that you are on top of things. Think of the progress that has been made since your troubles first began, and think how quickly technology improves things and will improve things in her lifetime.

My best thoughts are with both of you.

Marguerite

 

[Karlynn]

Marguerite, Derek had his echo today. They said he'd get the report within the week. He said it took at least a half an hour, so it sounds like they did a thorough job.
Thanks for asking.

 

[Mary]

Karlynn,
We had an echo done on one son this summer which showed a bicuspid aortic valve. I have also worried about his older brother. He was examined once to rule out Marfan's, but he has had symptoms since he was 11-12 where he would practically pass out, and did on a few occasions, for no apparent reason.
Because he has been a runner for so many years, we didn't push him to have an echo. I thought he must be ok, or he couldn't run the miles he does.
Anyway, at Thanksgiving I said, "Mark, I want you to go to the doctor and have an echo done when you get home at Christmas."
He said, "Ok!"
It turns out he has been really worried about how exhausted he has felt, and the discovery of Paul's bicuspid has increased his stress levels.
We'll see how it goes.
Mary

 

[Harpoon]

A "murmor" is defined (medically, more or less) as any sound that is not considered part of normal, healthy, heart rhythm. Under that definition, a murmor can be just about ANYTHING. Many people, especially children, develope murmors when they have a fever or some other mild illnesses. It usually goes away when they've recovered. Most children under 5 generally have murmors from time to time. Again, it goes away after a while.

I think the difficulty is in doctors who hear such things and are too quick to discount them without any kind of follow up because there are so many "benign" murmors... They seem to go with the opinion that, if the patient isn't showing any other outward signs of heart trouble, the murmor in and of itself is nothing to investigate.

A few years ago we brought my son into the ER because he had a fairly high fever and during the exam the doctor on call said he had a murmor. Right away I called my cardiologist to schedule an appointment but cancelled it a few days later after a follow-up exam with the pediatrician found the murmor to have disappeared.

I'm stil mindful of that episode and I ask the doctor how his heart sounds whenever my son gets a check-up or whatever.

I spent some time listening to him a few weekends ago when I had a stethescope on loan for my EMT training. Wanted to get some experience listening to a kid's heart and had a perfect "guinea pig" to examine... From what I know of normal heart sounds, his heart sounds great...


I think murmors can also be a bit "subjective," that is, open to interpretation of the physician doing the listening....

 

[labguides]

This is an interesting thread. I have had a heart murmur since birth. Rarely does a doctor mention it. My gyn nurse practitioner always mentions it. In October, she thought the mitral valve sounded different and sent me to the cardio. After waiting to get appt with the cardio recommended by gyn nurse practitioner, I had stress/echo this week. I do have mitral valve prolapse, with no regurg. The cardio was surprised that my aortic valve is leaking -- very mildly. He wants to do another echo in 18 months. I will see him again in 3 months to check my elevated cholesterol.

 

[epstns]

I, for one. . .

I, for one. . .

I will be eternally grateful to the endocrinologist who detected my murmur in a "routine" exam. I had been complaining that I had noticed a general reduction in energy over a period of years, and my GP discounted it as merely "getting older." I pressed the issue and secured a referral to an endocrinologist to test thyroid, etc. He was the one who detected the murmur, and said very sternly "I recommend you see a cardiologist ASAP to have this evaluated." I did, and the rest is now part of my ongoing history.

As another note, when I was told I had the murmur, I researched the topic and found that there is a fairly rigorous grading scale for identification and evaluation of murmurs. Thus, there is a way to estimate the severity of a murmur and to follow it over a period of time. Mine wasn't detected until it was already "Grade III." I guess I skipped first and second grades. . .

 

[Bionic Valve Tim]

I had a murmur...now I have a click

Most of the people in my life didn't know much (anything?) about my condition until surgery came up a couple of months ago, and since then I've gotten a lot of "Oh, I was told I have a murmur" or "So-and-so that I know has a murmur" and I always wonder what people are thinking. I can tell by the way they bring it up that they don't know any more than that!

My murmur was first noticed by my family doctor during a sports-physical in high school. He said he could barely hear it, but he ordered my parents to take me into a cardiologist. The cardiologist ordered up an echo and diagnosed a bicuspid valve. He told me that some day I'd probably need a valve replacement, but being a 17-year-old male I said, "Yeah, whatever" and shuffled it off to the back of my mind. Ooops

I think Harpoon makes a good point, that because so many murmurs are benign, people are prone to discounting them out of hand. Although I'm guilty of not taking my diagnosis as seriously as I should have (my "annual echo" quickly became bi-annual, and when I finally went in September I realized it had been about 4 years!), I'm glad I knew about the condition for so long.

A lot of those people who said "I was once told I had a murmur" looked a little distressed when they heard about my surgery. I know that at least one of them got scared into seeing a cardio!

 

[labguides]

<<I researched the topic and found that there is a fairly rigorous grading scale for identification and evaluation of murmurs.>>

Neither our daughter's cardio or her surgeon ever mentioned a grading scale. She was told she had severe regurg -- no numbers mentioned. In her post- op reports, no mention of numbers.

 

[Marguerite53]

Very cute!

Very cute!

I really love my new general practitioner. She is young, alert, confident. She is not that new, I guess, she's had 2 babies since I started going to see her. But what I'm recounting here is our very first visit..... The first time she ever put the stethescope up to my chest she reared back at the sound of my heart. Thinking she may have alarmed me, she started over, more professionally, slowly....listened.....then raised an eyebrow abit and stated calmly, "did you know that you have a murmur?" I smiled and said, oh yes, it's supposed to be a bicuspid aortic valve. She looked so relieved!! Then she smiled largely and said "Do you want to listen to it?? it's really quite an amazing murmur!!"

As of yet, I have not ever listened to my own heart. Have any of you? Lately I am more curious and thinking about having a listen..... Mostly so I'll be able to compare it when it's fixed!

Marguerite

 

[Guest]

As of yet, I have not ever listened to my own heart. Have any of you? Lately I am more curious and thinking about having a listen..... Mostly so I'll be able to compare it when it's fixed!

*raises hand wildly in air*

I have I have I have!

It is, actually, kinda cool . Heh...so much so, apparently, that everytime I have an appointment, there seems to always be some doctor/nurse "in training" that my cardiologist and the other specialist want them to listen to me . Now...if only I had had the "gumption" to ask that cute gal out at my last appointment.

*sighs*

But, I digress....

As for the "capture" of my condition, my "childhood doctor" listened to me at a routine exam soon after my parents brought me home from the hospital and simply said, "This boy is not right".

*pauses*

Now, no sly remarks from ya'll out there...or I may have to force you to buy a fake malibu, impala or mc .

*grins*

Anyway, he had my parents take me to an Elgin hospital for some tests, which then had him sending my parents and me to Chicago's Children's Memorial Hospital that same day...for more tests...and eventual surgeries, etc.

And that's my experience....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 31swm/pig valve/pacemaker
'72/'6/'9/'81/'7, train/models = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
MC Guide = http://www.chevyasylum.com/mcspotter/main.html
MC's Future = http://www.projectmonte.com/petition/

 

[Bionic Valve Tim]

As of yet, I have not ever listened to my own heart. Have any of you? Lately I am more curious and thinking about having a listen..... Mostly so I'll be able to compare it when it's fixed!

At my very last apoointment before surgery, I sheepishly asked the surgeon if I could listen, since I'd never heard my murmur before. To me the murmur was very faint, and it took a good ten seconds of listening to identify it. I found that surprising, because by that time my condition was severe enough that doctors reacted pretty strongly when they listened.

It's amazing to me how attuned specialists can be, which is of course how it should be. When my general practitioner first detected my murmur many years ago, he struggled to identify it and sent me to a cardio. The cardio listened for a few seconds an guessed it to be a bicuspid valve. Pretty impressive!

Tim

 

[Debrinha GT]

Amazing indeed!

Amazing indeed!

When I was a child, my cardio would let me listen to my own heart quite a lot. To me they were just heart beats, and I think it's really amazing that not only are they able to detect a murmur, but they can actually identify the nature of it and how serious it is!

Débora

 

[bvdr]

I can't imagine someone with a heart murmur not listening to it every now and then. Stethoscopes can be purchased so inexpensively now and even the cheap ones can give you a good listen. Usually tubing is better for hearing sounds clearly but when you are listening to yourself then sometimes the longer tubing comes in handy.

I took an old stethoscope and cut the tubing very short and gave it to my little grandson. He brought it to show-and-tell at his preschool and the kids all listened to each other.

 

[Gnusgal]

My favorite is when I would see a new doctor (this was before the mechanical valve) and even though all over the chart there would be mentions of my heart defects, heart meds, heart surgeries etc. (never mind the fact that I had to tell them that my heart was on the other side of my chest) and they would still ask "Did you know you have a murmur?" Well, duh!

I used to say I would love it if just once a doctor would actually read my chart. Heck, why do I bother filling it out if they aren't going to even read it?! But when I went down to Texas Children's for my valve replacement it was a much different story. With every single doctor the nurses would take me into a room, do the usual vital routine, and tell me the doctor would be in shortly. And it would be an HOUR later before the doctor would come in. We found out later it was because the doctor was spending that hour reading my chart! So now I just want doctors to skim my chart for the highlights.

As for listening to my own heart, I hadn't until recently. I didn't figure there was a need. I hear my heart beating without a stethescope, even before I got my mechanical valve. But my husband is now in nursing school, so there was a stethescope handy. I took a listen. It sounds nothing like it does to me (without the stethescope). It's interesting... My husband has enjoyed having the opportunity to listen to my heart, and has even brought along his stethescope to parties with his nursing friends so that they can have a listen too. Apparently I'm a great conversation piece...

 

[ericaj]

clicks, murmurs

clicks, murmurs

I also find it greatly amusing when asked if I knew I had a murmur, I can see if it is an urgent care or something but when they have the chart right there with all or most of my history in front of them?!? Apparently I have like 3 different clicks and murmurs for each the aortic (2 diffrent sounds) the mitral and the pulmonic valves. And very interesting to any Drs. or Med. Prof. in training as they always request to take an "extra" listen and even recently the Pediatric Cardiology fellow I befriended at my Cardios office has after listening said "what a great click you have" very silly these Ds. sometimes.

Erica

 

[McCln]

To those who may not been educated on what a murmur really is, it is a leak that leaks from a valve and cause a swushing sound. Although most murmurs are not found till later years, it can be there at birth. The causes range from RA from one parent to other cause, such as fenfen. No matter the cause, it should be monitiored often, after diagnoses, usually yearly. I was not fortunate for a few years. When I was told about upcoming surgery, the swushin had worsened. I heard the sound during echo and my jaw literally fell to the floor. No one said it then, but the cardio confirmed it later. Murmurs may do fine without surgery for life, some need medication, others repair, and then the ones need replacement. A lot of research is still ongoing on murmurs and causes are numerous. Just feel lucky when problems are caught and something is done to ease the pain and frustration. Have a great week everyone, just had to put in my two cents. My mother had RA and it may have something to do with my murmur I had.