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MichyB

Hi all. I haven't written much lately because I was in the midst of medical confustion. Just writing as an update. It's a little long, sorry.

For those of you who don't know me (I don't post too often) I started treating with a cardiologist last year because I was diagnosed with a possible bicuspid valve. I had several echos over the years from my internist ... one said I did have a bicuspid, one said I didn't and one said maybe. So, I decided that since I was into my 30's, getting married, and thinking about having kids one day, I should follow with a cardiologist. I got the name of a well respected cardio from someone in my office. I saw this doctor for the first time last year. They were laughing at me while I was on the treadmill, saying, "She can probably run circles around all our other patients." After my visit, the doc told me everything was fine and to come back in 12 months. I was told I no restrictions and could still take the birth control pill.

A few weeks ago I got my records and learned that my pulmonary artery pressure reading on last year's echo was 43. The doctor never told me. I went back to the same doctor soon after learning this because it was the fastest way to get another echo. (He was a real jerk about the fact that he didn't tell me but that's another story.) I was called two days later and told that my pulmonary pressure reading was 58, which is outrageously high, and classified as "severe" pulmonary hypertension. I was scared beyond belief.

I could not understand why this was happening. I was getting a little short of breath but at the same time I was exercising less and could not figure out whether it was due to getting out of shape, anxiety, my bicuspid, or a combination of all three.

After I got the reading of 58, I found an excellent pulmonary doctor who sent me for a chest Xray, angiogram and extremety dvt test. All normal. Finally, I realized (thanks to Nancy) that I should go to a PH specialist.

I went to Columbia Presbyterian's PH center a week ago. My pulmonary reading from their institution was a 21, well within normal and well below the reported 58. They really didn't comment on why the results were so different other than to say that every facilitity is different and calculates differently and that they see this (misdiagnosis) frequently ... They are sending me for a stress test as a precaution, and if anything looks weird, a stress echo. However, they indicated that they have every confidence in their readings.

After experiencing the care at Columbia, I can tell you the difference between a "good" echo and a less than good one. I have had 5 echos now. None of them prior to Columbia's was ever done for longer than 15 minutes. The techs typically sporadically place the instrument wherever they feel like looking at that moment, jumping around. There is no set procedure for how to do it. The doctors typically don't read the results until after you've left the building, so there is no opportunity to repeat images.

A good echo will take time. It will start all the way down at your lungs and basically use the wand like a roadmap up your chest around your heart, SLOWLY. I was on the table for a good 45 minutes to an hour. The doppler itself, perhaps because it's used on children, is tiny. The were able to stick it in between my ribs, without bruising me.

The tech did the test first. She then left the room and brought in a doctor to review the tape right there in front of me. The doctor had some additional questions so he redid some parts of the test. Not only did he confirm that the pulmonary artery readings were within normal limits, he finally found the answer to why I was getting divergent readings on whether I have a bicuspid. I apparently have three cusps but two of them are fused together, so it works like a bicuspid but looks like a tricuspid. (Does anyone on here have this?)

In one visit, I had all of my questions over the past four years answered. I left that place thinking, with confidence, that I was going to be okay.

I tell this story as precaution for those of you who are new or struggling with cardio's that you are not happy with. I initially went to a well respected doctor with a good reputation, however I think he was not accostumed to treating congenital defects or younger patients. His office gave me two bad echos and bad advice to boot, as I should never have continued with the pill if there was even a suspicion of PH. I had to seek out better and more reliable care. In the end, I spent three weeks panicking over something that is probably nothing. I may still need surgery one day for the fused tricuspid, but for now, I am still in the "waiting room."

PLEASE ... for those of you out there with congenital defects, make sure your doc treats those conditions and not just acquired coronary disease, and consider going to a pediatric cardiologist. The level of care is different.
 
Wow, that's quite a story! Many of us have had disagreements with cardiologists over one thing or another -- I'll be visiting my fourth one sometime soon.
Somewhere along the line I was told that two of the leaflets on my aortic valve were fused together; other times I was told it was bicuspid. Is it possible that all bicuspids are tricuspids with two leaflets fused together? I don't know.
 
Michy-

I am so glad that you finally got a proper diagnosis and even more happy for you that it showed no PH. What a relief!

We've said this before many, many times, echoes are only as good as the tech who does them. And there are many poor techs out there. It's impossible for most people to tell when one is a good tech and one is a bad tech. All I can tell you is that once Joe found a good tech, he will use no other and will only have his echoes done by that particular woman.

By the way, it's not uncommon for cardiologists and other doctors to not tell their patients about a diagnosis of PH. I have no idea why that is, maybe just sheer ignorance. I'd like to think not, but what other conclusion can one come to. Most of the people on the PHA website had their diagnosis ignored and only found out about it when they read their own charts.

Once they went to a specialist, they were able to get the right diagnosis.

In your case, Michy, it turned out very well. I'm happyfor you.
 
Thanks Nancy ... and thanks so much for sharing the info about your husband. I was scheduled to go for a cath on this past Monday but cancelled it after I went to a PH doc. The PH doc said there was no need.

This site is invaluable. Knowledge is power.
 
JimL said:
Wow, that's quite a story! Many of us have had disagreements with cardiologists over one thing or another -- I'll be visiting my fourth one sometime soon.
Somewhere along the line I was told that two of the leaflets on my aortic valve were fused together; other times I was told it was bicuspid. Is it possible that all bicuspids are tricuspids with two leaflets fused together? I don't know.

Jim, the tech that just did my echo told me that most bicuspid aortic valves are 2 of the 3 leaflets fused together, but he also said there are true bicuspid valves with only 2 leaflets.
 
That's an alarming story, and one that's too frequently true. There have been a number of pulmonary score scares in the forums lately. Interestingly, in most cases, the doctors did not discuss the pulmonary reading with their patients. I wonder if they're just used to the techs getting them wrong, and don't want to start a fire drill with the patient. It would be wonderful (and awful at the same time) if they all turned out to be tech errors!

My echo tech routinely takes 45 minutes to an hour with me, although she does leave bruises. Have to ask for more gel, thanks to Karlynn's tip.

I have seen pictures of the semi-trileafed bicuspid valves on sites, and they were simply referred to as bicuspids, as two of them together form half to almost 2/3 of the valve, and they are not separated from each other. I think many unsuccessful repairs might have been thoracic surgeons who kept thinking, "If only I could separate those two leaflets, maybe they'd work properly." Here's one picture: http://info.med.yale.edu/intmed/cardio/echo_atlas/entities/aortic_stenosis_bicuspid.html

And there's the third category, which is those with "normal" tricuspid valves, who had two of their leaflets completely glued together over time with calcifications, creating a de facto bicuspid. I had that, as did a few others here. A poor copy, if you will. A bicuspid wannnabe.

*sigh* All that, and not even the real thing...

Best wishes,
 
2 0f 3

2 0f 3

Hi - I just wanted to chime in my aortic valve is actually 1 leaflet and part of the 2nd leaflet fused together to create the bicuspid - cardio's have always reffered to it as bicuspid - just that they can see remnants of teh 3rd leaflet fused together with one of the others. Somewhere in one of my copies of my reports it is stated which to leaflets are fused together and which leaflet is normal. In my case I also have early leaking in teh mitral valve as well.

Not sure that helps any, sorry.

Erica
 
I Just have to reply to this one...

I Just have to reply to this one...

Hi Michy B, and all you other exciting VR People out in Computer Land..LOL

Nancy is right, it is DEFINITELY not uncommon for the doctors to not tell you about Pulmonary Hypertension, as mine did the same thing and none of my medical team (Endocrinologist, Cardiologist, Pulmonologist, Nephrologist, and pain care doctor) told me that I had Pulmonary Hypertension until I was admitted to the hospital at the end of August. I recently went to see my pulmonologist, Dr. Reeves, about the PH (My pressures are at 43) and he told me "Well, yes, you have pulmonary hypertension, it goes hand in hand with Sleep Apnea." and I told him that I didn't know I had it, and he said: "You didn't? Well you do..." Hmmmm imagine that...well, he didn't say anything more on what we were going to do to treat it, so I took it upon myself to get in touch with a PH specialist in Portland, Maine, and started the process off to get an appointment set up, which meant going over to my PCP and Pulmonologist's office and have my records sent up to Dr. Wirth. Well, a few hours later I got a call from my PCP's nurse who proceeded to yell at me for not telling them about my PH and that they would not send the records to Dr. Wirth until I saw Dr. Donovan again. Thus, this lead into a full fledge argument about who's responsible for telling my PCP about any new medical problems that I develop and I couldn't believe how she was blaming me, when I didn't even know myself. By Dr. Donovan telling me to "Let the Specialists handle everything, and that he was just the coordinating Dr" that told me that I needed to go through the specialists who then would report back to Dr. Donovan...my pcp. I do now know that this is a disease not to be fooled around with, so as per my nurse's request, I asked to get into see Dr. Donovan immediately, which is what they wanted, but she told me then that I wouldn't be seeing him until November 8th!!! 1 month from our argument...LOL I just thought I should share this with you guys to let you know that I am surrounded by a bunch of nonchalant, uncaring doctor's and nurses!!! Take Care, Harrybaby666 :mad:
 
Harry-

How terrible for you, caught up in a Magilla between doctors! Remember that the HIPAA laws allow you to ask for copies of your medical records, test results, billing records, etc and you cannot be refused. You have EVERY right to get those records! AND you can report the laggards to the Feds right online.

This is not your fault, this is not your fault, this is not your fault. Did I forget to say, this is not your fault!!!!

Sounds as if your doctor was caught in an embarassing situation. He had your medical records, they obviously mentioned PH. He should have acted, but didn't.

Now he will no doubt be caught in the headlights. Too bad.

You have to get the right diagnosis for yourself. This is not HIS disease, this is yours. Getting it taken care of correctly by a specialist is what has to be done.

Site the HIPAA laws and get your records.

I wish you the best. I am so sorry you have to have this added stress, no person should have to fight a political battle to get proper medical care.
 
Harry ... they originally told me at the PH center that they could not see me for awhile and you know what I did? I begged. That's right. I said, "I'm an extremely anxious person and have basically been told I've been walking around with this untreated for a year. PLEASE let me in earlier. I won't last much longer with these questions." You know what? I got in earlier.

As for your records, Nancy is right. Go there in person if you have to and request them. You might have to pay copying charges. Not sure what they are (may be different in every state).

Thanks for all the info on the bicuspid v. fused tricuspid everyone. Are these things born this way? I always thought bicuspids were congenital. Is it congenital even if it is fused or partially fused?
 
MichyB said:
Thanks for all the info on the bicuspid v. fused tricuspid everyone. Are these things born this way? I always thought bicuspids were congenital. Is it congenital even if it is fused or partially fused?

I guess you mean that fused bicuspid may be an accident of formation rather than an accident of birth and so may not be hereditary. I think a valve deformed due to rheumatic disease may also have fused commisures.

These are good questions, most clinical physicians dont think about these questions since they are not directly connected to the management of the disease ( they think such concerns are academic ), but they can be very important for your lifestyle.

I am also trying to understand the cause of my disease for some of the same reasons you are, and even though my aortic stenosis is severe perhaps what I find can be of some help to you. So far no one has given me a satisfactory answer and from viewing the echo tapes given to me I dont think it is clear what the form or history of the valve is.

I just visited a cardiologist at the Rush University Medical center and he thinks he detects the bicuspid valve from hearing an ejection click. I am going to let them take a closer look with the echo probe by getting a transesophageal echo next week. They are also doing an MRI of the chest. In my case these looks are probably indicated pre-surgery anyway and I could make an argument that they need to find the morphology of the valve(s) in my heart if they want to attempt a Ross since I dont want extra cuts made to take a look at the pulmonary valve if it is detectably not in good condition and cant be used as an autograft for the aortic valve.

This is another topic on my list of things to research and I will let you know as (if) I find out more.
 
Hi Nancy, Hi Michy B

Hi Nancy, Hi Michy B

Michy,
It wasn't the new PH Specialist that I am having trouble with, it's the nurse and my PCP....they seem to think that I am the one who is supposed to make sure that they have all of my records and to call them when I find out I have a diagnosis such as this....I am thinking it's time to find a new PCP-which stinks because I really like Dr. Donovan, because he is not from this area and he is not rude or demanding or offensive like his nurse and the rest of the Frisbee Memorial Hospital Staff....I honestly don't understand what the problem with the people in my town is, but I can't wait until my SS check arrives, because.....I'M OUTTA HERE!!!! LOL Anyway, I hope that they will get my records up to Dr. Wirth sooner than November 8th, as I have had this for over a year (my pulmonologist told me this) without knowing that I have it.

Nancy,
I just don't know where doctor's or nurses get off telling their patients when they have been diagnosed with such a horrible illness "Well, your not gonna die tomorrow!!!" This is what that witch told me when I asked her for an earlier appointment with Dr. Donovan before she told me, no, we will not see you until the 8th of November. And she expects me to be on the phone with them telling them that I am sick???!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Another thing I am having a real problem with is their downplaying of my symptoms, because when I told her that I felt that this was serious enough to see a PH specialist, again she discounted everything I had to tell her, like it was nothing to worry about. what an honest to god nightmare!!!!! Do you suppose that the reason I am running into this is because I am on Medicaid? I seem to feel like I get put on the back burner because of my being on it...Thanks for your encouraging words and on going support Michy and Nancy. Take Care, Harrybaby666 :D :D
 
I believe that the reason that some doctors and nurses react this way to PH is because it is a RARE condition, and they have not had to learn about it only in the most cursory way, and probably skipped that as well. They, in most cases, have NEVER seen a case of it, and don't have a clue of what to do about it.

Most of what is in the textbooks is so outdated, that PH is considered untreatable when, in fact, there are several wonderful treatments which have been developed in the past couple of years. They significantly diminish the symptoms and turn a fatal condition into a chronic and treatable one. PH is a progressive and fatal condition if it is not treated. So that is the reason that those of us who have been touched by this disease or have loved ones who have been, are so adamant that people get a proper diagnosis done. It may be that it is secondary to some other condition, it may be that it is primary to nothing. But you are NEVER going to get a proper diagnosis or proper medication if you have PH, from your primary physician, cardiologist, or pulmonologist. They simply do not see enough cases to understand what has to be done to get to the "final answer".

Joe almost died from pulmonary hypertension, after all the other things he's been through, he was days away from some kind of system breakdown, he was slipping into a coma. I had no clue and was panic stricken. It took an entire month of hospitalization in the intensive cardiac care unit to get him all straightened out. It is truly a miracle that he lived.

This population here seems to have more than the rare status of PH. For whatever reason several folks seem to have this in their records. It may be that within this population, it is not that rare. Just don't know, it's never been studied, as far as everything I've read. But I do know that if you have seen this in your records, it would be seriously in your best interest to pursue a proper diagnosis with all due speed. Maybe, as Michy found out, it will be unfounded, but then---maybe---
 
Re: fused tricuspid/bicuspid valves

Re: fused tricuspid/bicuspid valves

Just when I was starting to think Jim was the only one - his cardio told us he had a bicuspid (ie 2-leaflet) valve. And that it had been that way since birth. After his valve replacement, the surgeon told us two of the 3 leaflets were fused together (with a little hole along the join for good measure) and the 3rd was too small to fill the remaining gap - giving him stenosis and regurgitation in one happy little bundle!
Sounds like it isn't that uncommon after all. I have no idea how they tell if it's something you've been born with when it only presents at age 26 though...
 
But still...

But still...

Hi Nancy,
I agree with what you have said--and completely, but I am still faced with the problem of my primary care doctor not being informed of this and his nurse who I might add, was totally and needlessly very miserable to me on the phone, and It wasn't my fault that neither I or my primary were not told of the condition, and I just don't like the fact that when you know something needs to be treated and the nurse just blows it off as something minor...and the fact that she "won't let me see the specialist until I see my primary" was to me a slap in the face. I know that this needs to be treated..and soon, even though it is secondary to Sleep Apnea, to me it is every bit as important, especially if you have multiple illnesses..I really want to find a new primary doctor and not in this town either. So, I guess my next question is How do I get to see this PH Specialist if my Primary's nurse has told me that I cannot see them until I see Dr. Donovan a month from now...? I am soooo frustrated!!! I forgot to mention that the Pulmonary Hypertension is in my pulmonologists records that he has on me....ON A COMPUTER...THEY ARE NOT DOING PAPER RECORDS ANYMORE...JUST PUTTING THEM ON A COMPUTER!! I did see the diagnosis on the echocardiogram that I had done while I was in the hospital, but you would have thought that the doctor's would have passed this along to my primary doctor. Harrybaby666 :mad: :mad:
 
Since it can take a long time to see a PH specialist because they are so busy, many people go ahead and set up an appointment and start to gather their records.

I would pose your dilemma on the PHA website and get other's input there. Many have been through what you are going through. It is such a difficult situation, particularly when you aren't feeling well at all. So unfair. And I really don't understand the "attitude" that has been directed at you when you are just trying to get medical attention for yourself with a potentially devastating illness. It's unforgiveable, childish and VERY unprofessional.
 
The Biggest Reason...

The Biggest Reason...

I think Nancy,

That this is the biggest reason that I have for wanting to move out of this town...Honestly, I grew up 30 miles south of here and I NEVER saw the bad attitude that this town (Rochester, NH) has, and it's not just in the medical profession...its everywhere you go....I will post and see what they say, but I will also call Dr. Wirth's office and explain to them what has happened and see if I can get around this horrifying mess. Again, thank you for your ever growing support and ongoing encouragement. Harrybaby666 :D :D :D
 
Hi Harry, my new medical centre also keeps all their records on computer, but they can print them out if you ask (..they also told me I wasn't allowed to access my records because of the Commonwealth privacy act, but I've since found that was revised a couple of years ago and I have full legal access to all my files..).

I've also had the same problems of being told I can't see a specialist unless I've been referred by my GP, but again, I rang a pulmonary specialist and they were happy for me to self-refer. Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to see them before I moved interstate, so I'll probably have to go through the whole rigmorole again... but I'm armed to the teeth with all this knowledge so things should be easier. I'm also hoping my new cardio will have a better idea of my condition and what is going on, as she is head of the congenital heart centre for adults.

I truly hope things are easier for you with the move. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

A : )
 
PapaHappyStar said:
This is another topic on my list of things to research and I will let you know as (if) I find out more.

( Apologies in advance for flooding you with too much info on bicuspid valves )

Here is a link to an interesting research summary paper ( its not too difficult to read ( my opinion ) ):

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/106/8/900?view=full

I can summarize it:

-- With current Medical knowledge the genesis of BAV is uncertain, it could be due to abnormal environmental conditions soon after embryogenesis or due to genetic defects. The authors do lean toward the genetic hypothesis. It may be that the genetic cause of BAV may not be the same in all cases.

-- An individual with BAV should alert his/her relatives for echo-cardiographic screening.

-- The particular morphology of the BAV and lifestyle risk factors ( smoking, cholesterol etc. ) determine the rapidity of degenerative calcification.

-- In the authors view BAV does not directly cause changes in the aorta ( in general vascular changes ) but is a predictor of such changes.

-- A definitive diagnosis of BAV is possible only after valve removal. AVR is indicated for severe AS. Patients with isolated AR may be candidates for AV repair, and should be referred early for surgery.

-- There may be possibilities for gene (protein) therapy to alleviate some of the problems related to BAV.

If you are interested in options for BAV you should definitely read the beginning and the conclusions section -- it is a good summary of the main points of the article.

Burair
 
Hi Harry. Sorry I didn't understand the circumstances. I don't know whether Medicaid affects the circumstances. The only thing I can tell you is that your story and my story are very similar and I am not on Medicaid. It wasn't the primary care doc but the cardio being unhelpful. He blamed ME for not knowing the info on the PH reading when he never told me. Then, when he did tell me about the second reading of 58, he said it was "just a number".

I agree with Nancy. A lot of doctors just don't see this and don't know how to respond, Medicaid or not. However, it does sound like if you are unhappy (rightfully so) with your Primary care doc, you might want to get someoene else. The question is timing. I was in the same boat with the cardio but I decided it would take longer to get an appointment with someone new and start over rather than to go back to him. Now that this situation has been clarified, I will find a new cardio, someone who specializes in adult congenital problems. You have to weigh the pros and cons of switching docs while you are trying to figure this out ... it stinks being seen by someone you don't like but it's also hard to find a new and good doc while you are trying to figure out a complicated medical issue. It's a personal choice only you can make.

I hope everything starts to get a little better for you. I know how upset you must be because I was devastated while this was going on. Try to focus on the positives (though it's hard). Sleep apnea can be a cause, and sleep apnea is manageable. I didn't really have any explanations for what was going on.

Keep us posted.
Michy
 
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