VitD and bio AVR

[Katerina Winchowska]

Bio AVR 2011, 9 years ago. Last but one echo 2018 showed no deterioration. I was told by my GP that I was VitD deficient and to take the highest over the counter supplement. Took for 18 months, then felt some arrhythmia so looked it up and discovered that VitD in high doses can cause this. At the same time, I read two papers stating that high dose VitD had caused unexpected calcium build up in bio valves. I stopped taking it. Recent echo showed calcification. Expected followup appointment with cardiologist did not happen due to COVID restrictions, telephone instead with cardiology nurse who just had a list of questions to ask me and could not answer my query as to whether I should resume VitD, stop it or take a lower dose. Just wondered if anyone else has come across this.

 

[LondonAndy]

Interesting post Katerina - here in the UK I believe that the advice is almost all adults are Vitamin D deficient during the winter months because we don't get enough sunlight then and should take a supplement of 400ul per day, and that high doses should only be taken for short periods. I have been taking 4,000ul per day until I read that earlier this week, and do have some arrhythmia, so have switched to the 400ul dose.

Will watch this post to see if any of the wise gurus have more comments for those of us with valves (though mine is mechanical, unlike yours)

 

[rich01]

This is a duplicate thread of vitamin d posted in Small Talk.

 

[Eva]

Bio AVR 2011, 9 years ago. Last but one echo 2018 showed no deterioration. I was told by my GP that I was VitD deficient and to take the highest over the counter supplement. Took for 18 months, then felt some arrhythmia so looked it up and discovered that VitD in high doses can cause this. At the same time, I read two papers stating that high dose VitD had caused unexpected calcium build up in bio valves. I stopped taking it. Recent echo showed calcification. Expected followup appointment with cardiologist did not happen due to COVID restrictions, telephone instead with cardiology nurse who just had a list of questions to ask me and could not answer my query as to whether I should resume VitD, stop it or take a lower dose. Just wondered if anyone else has come across this.

This is an interesting post. it will easier to follow one thread instead of two, since this is, as rich01 said, is a duplicate.

 

[ScribeWithALancet]

Interesting post Katerina - here in the UK I believe that the advice is almost all adults are Vitamin D deficient during the winter months because we don't get enough sunlight then and should take a supplement of 400ul per day, and that high doses should only be taken for short periods. I have been taking 4,000ul per day until I read that earlier this week, and do have some arrhythmia, so have switched to the 400ul dose.

Will watch this post to see if any of the wise gurus have more comments for those of us with valves (though mine is mechanical, unlike yours)

There are two books that are relevant - "Vitamin K2 And The Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life Kindle Edition"
see Amazon at
"https://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-C...and+the+Calcium+Paradox&qid=1602883973&sr=8-1" or buy it used at Abe Books

and "How Not To Die With True High-Dose Vitamin D Therapy: Coimbra’s Protocol and the Secrets of Safe High-Dose Vitamin D3 and Vitamin K2 Supplementation"
from Amazon or Used from Abe Books.
The essence is that Vitamin K2 is the driver of a mechanism the body has that moves calcium from where it should not be to where it should be. If one is taking high doses of Vitamin D to boost calcium levels, it deposits the calcium wherever. This can cause problems with the breasts, the smooth muscle tissue, the arteries (plaque), etc. Taking vitamin K2 with it causes the calcium to be deposited in the correct locations and avoids the ill effects. Also, taking more then 500 mg of calcium at a time can be toxic to the kidneys and cause cancer as the kidneys can only absorb 500 mg at a time. This can be mitigated by taking time release Calcium. The only brand that I am aware of that is time release is Citrical but surely there must be others?
There are other books on the market as well as research articles. Unfortunately, Dr. Coimbra is Portuguese and his medical research is unreadable for me. But there are enough articles and books to get the gist of what to do. InterLibrary Loan is normally your friend. In these epidemic times, we are substituting Abe Books (used books).
Add the K2 and Vitamin C and you should do well. K2 can affect blood thinners. Increment in small doses and test with your meter. Vitamin D can affect your immune system and when taken as a supplement instead of via sunshine needs to be handled carefully and cautiously. Again, test regularly.
There have been studies in prisons and in Japan that show that high doses of Vitamin D are as (more?) effective then flu shots at preventing the Flu. A book on Covid 19 and the Spanish Flu showed that both were worst where sunshine was scarce and temperatures low and at their best where sunshine was abundant and temperatures moderate to warm.

A related medical article that can serve as a starting point for further research is "Vitamin D deficiency and co-morbidities in COVID-19 patients – A fatal relationship?"
located at
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7276229/You should read the "correction" as well as it leads one to the conclusion that all medical research should be taken (cautiously) with a grain of salt ! - )

Walk in His Peace,
Scribe With a Lancet

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi @Katerina Winchowska - I’ve been taking 2,500 iu vitamin D3 per day since 2008. I started taking it because I have osteoporosis and also because I read extensively about it and knew of its protective health benefits, particularly in relation to the heart and immunity (the latter now more important than ever with Covid-19). I have never had any negative effects.

My vitamin D levels are checked every six months by my GP along with all the other usual blood tests one has done. My levels of D have always been in the optimal replete range, that is averaging 150 nmol/L (or 60 ng/ml in US numbers). I also take vitamin K2 as MK7 - that is to help put calcium where it should go and prevent it going where it shouldn’t such as in the coronary arteries and heart valve - I have had three CT angiograms since 2008 - in all of them my calcium score was zero.

When I had my bicuspid aortic valve replaced in 2014 the surgeon noted that the valve was only “moderately calcified”. I received a bovine replacement valve and have yearly echos because the valve is too small, I have moderate patient prosthesis mismatch which means I get high pressure gradients across the valve but so far the valve leaflets are fine with no calcification or damage. Again on a CT angiogram there was no calcification anywhere.

I highly recommend the book ‘Vitamin K2 and the calcium paradox, how a little known vitamin could save your life’ - the author writes not only about vitamin K2 but also vitamin D and vitamin A. They are synergistic.
Also recommend ‘The Vitamin D Solution’ by Dr Michael Holick
And this blog by Dr David Grimes who has been writing about vitamin D for many years, often writing about the protective benefits of D to the heart but at the moment concentrating specifically about the immunity protection of vitamin D in the current Covid 19 pandemic: Dr David Grimes (the reference to the Murine Institute of Clinical Excellence is a joke which UK members of the valve forum will understand).

 

[Maineiacs]

Vitamin D 5000 IU daily. Forever. Had
BAVR, with Bioprosthetic AVR Percerveal D L, on 9/11/2018

no calcification. Check your kidney function, as Calcium is secreted through renal system

 

[ScribeWithALancet]

Vitamin D 5000 IU daily. Forever. Had
BAVR, with Bioprosthetic AVR Percerveal D L, on 9/11/2018

no calcification. Check your kidney function, as Calcium is secreted through renal system

Maineiacs,
Do you eat organic food? Maine is a more rural area and agricultural, dairy and meat products are more likely to be grass fed. Grass fed products are naturally high in vitamin K2 and A which naturally keep calcium from accumulating in the wrong areas of the body. According to "Vitamin K2 and the calcium paradox, how a little known vitamin could save your life" most calcium and osteoporosis problems did not develop (in large numbers) until after the US shifted from a grass fed agricultural system to a corn/wheat fed agricultural system.
Walk in His Peace,
Scribe With a Lancet

 

[Maineiacs]

There’s Maine, and then there’s Maine. We live 25 miles from Portland, on the water in Harpswell. Lots of academia, tree huggers, and organic farmers as side jobs. It’s beautiful! Thanks for the info.
As an APNP, I follow research and literature searches!

 

[Freebird]

I happened to have an appointment with my surgeon (8 weeks post-op!) and asked him if Vitamin D is linked to calcification and he said no.

 

[tom in MO]

A visit with a Nurse who cannot answer questions and does not get them answered for you is not good health care. Call back and ask again. Ask if you need any tests.

In general, you should not let Covid scare you off from getting the routine monitoring needed for a bioprosthetic valve. Since Covid I've not missed one appointment, including 2 dentist visits and a surgical procedure for removal of a cancerous mole. I've had two blood draws. Just mask up, (use a surgical or N95 mask, not cloth), stay 6 feet away from others, keep hand sanitizer handy and you should be fine.

 

[Katerina Winchowska]

A visit with a Nurse who cannot answer questions and does not get them answered for you is not good health care. Call back and ask again. Ask if you need any tests.

In general, you should not let Covid scare you off from getting the routine monitoring needed for a bioprosthetic valve. Since Covid I've not missed one appointment, including 2 dentist visits and a surgical procedure for removal of a cancerous mole. I've had two blood draws. Just mask up, (use a surgical or N95 mask, not cloth), stay 6 feet away from others, keep hand sanitizer handy and you should be fine.

Hi, the hospital cut down on post-op cardiology appointments a few years ago and introduced a "nurse led valve clinic" until year 10 post op for bio avrs. This year that appointment was scheduled to be "over the telephone" with a nurse. In the event, I was called by a cardiologist but simply to say that I would now be discharged from the nurse led clinic and moved to annual echo monitoring. I asked about calcification. Her recommendation was to take the maintenance dose of 400mg per day, which should have no ill effect. She was also of the opinion that I had orginally be told to take far too high a dose long term and should have been monitored and the dose reduced when I'd reached a normal level.

 

[ATHENS1964]

Ι had a blood test yesterday, everything was fine except for vitamin D (25-OH) which was 13 should have been greater than 20. I was advised to take a vitamin D supplement, there are two packages, one pure level D and the other D + K2. Which do you think I should take?

 

[libra rising]

Here's a link explaining why vit D3 is sometimes offered with K2. They work synergistically, and the K2 directs calcium into your bones, rather than elsewhere.
https://www.nutritioninsight.com/ne...synergy-shown-to-amplify-effects-of-both.htmlGeoff

 

[Keithl]

I take this 5-6 days a week for years as my Vit D was always low.

https://www.puritan.com/puritans-pr...te4JWHoDyMZc7Y2w67BoCEoQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[RAS]

I had a D test done in 2010 which came back low, so I was advised by my GP to take a vitamin D supplement. I don't recall being tested prior to that. I have been taking 50 mcg of D3 daily since then. My AVR was in 2006 (St Jude mechanical), so can't speak to any calcification impact on the original BAV valve.

Since taking the supplement, my tests have all come back just barely in the normal range. I didn't know about any calcification risk until reading this thread, so I'll remember to discuss with my cardio next visit in case it could be an issue for my other valves. For now, I'm sticking with what is apparently a just high enough dose for me.

Interestingly I had an Ancestry DNA test last year which I uploaded to other sites. One of those sites provided "Wellbeing" attributes including Vitamin D. It's not considered diagnostic and they include many caveats, but this is what it said for Vitamin D.

"Your genetic results suggest you may be at a disadvantage when it comes to metabolizing vitamin D efficiently. Once your body produces vitamin D from sunlight or consumes it from food sources, you may absorb less of it in your bloodstream than is possible for someone without your genetic variant."

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi RAS - 50 mcg is 2,000 IU - perhaps you should take a higher dose ? I take 2,500 IU per day but I know of many people who take upwards of 5,000 IU per day. I don't take more than 2,500 IU per day because I get my vitamin D levels tested every six months by my GP and my levels are in the optimal replete range of 150nmol/L / 60 ng/ml, sometimes a bit more than that. I don't have any calcification on my biological valve which is 8 years old. I also take vitamin K2.