Vitamin K2 MK7

[johnnycake23]

Hi there. Recently a family doctor, that is, a doctor in my family told me about the virtues of vitamin K2, MK7. He said this vitamin has many benefits for people with artificial valves, in my case bovine, by blocking calcium build-up around the foreign valve. I have not run this past my cardio yet; I'll see him next month. I'm just wondering if any one of my fellow AVR patients out there has heard similar stories, are taking this vitamin supplement, or were told not to take it. By the way, I am on Lipitor, and have been since my second surgery, which will be 10 years this November. And while on the subject of vitamins, I'll also ask my cardio about CoQ 10, which my doc heretofore has resisted putting me on. The latest I read on this from Cleveland Clinic website about CoQ 10 is they neither recommend nor discourage, that the studies are inconclusive. Your thoughts? Thank you for taking the time.

 

[user 16827]

Hi Johnny I use K2 MK7 for the reasons you mentioned, however i take warfarin. The reports on k2 all seem positive, the Lipitor on the other hand ?? the lipitor will affect your Q10, i have no idea if the supplement Q10 will be diminished by the lipitor too ? Just as my k2 is affected by my warfarin. Some people report k2 seems to stabilise the INR results however i find it lowers mine. Good luck with it & Best wishes

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi Johnny - I take vitamin K2 as MK7. I've been taking 300mcg of it per day for the past 6 years. I was taking it when my valve was bicuspid and I've carried on since AVR. I first heard of it on cardiologist Dr William Davis's blog and then also read about it as helpful for osteoporosis - K2 helps put calcium in the bones and not in the arteries, or valves maybe. When I had my AVR my valve was only moderately calcified - of course it's impossible to say if it would have been more calcified if I hadn't taken K2. I have had three CT angiograms over the years, the last one in May, and my coronary arteries are completely clear, calcium score 0, that despite the fact that I have very high cholesterol (over 300) but with high HDL (135) and LDL(193) (of course the lipid hypothesis of heart disease is just that, a hypothesis). I also take 6mg per day of vitamin K2 as MK4, and I take 100mg of CoQ10 per day. My cardiologist knows I take those supplements and is absolutley fine about them. When I had AVR the hospital were fine about them too - I handed in my meds and supplements when admitted and the nurse handed me my doses of both at the appropriate times each day, no problem.

 

[Nocturne]

I take Vitamin K2 MK7 once a day as well, along with aged garlic extract and a bevy of other pills and supplements. I'm 44 and unlike Paleowoman, two years ago my coronary calcium score was 156. That's bad. Like, worst 1% for my age bad. I'm hoping the Vitamin K2 can do something to counteract my Lp(a) level, which is 13 times normal due to a genetic mutation I have two copies of. It's also why I'm nervous about getting on Coumadin if I go with a mechanical valve when the time comes, because I'm not sure if Coumadin plays nice with Vitamin K2 (and Coumadin is known to increase rates of calcification as well).

 

[almost_hectic]

Ive never had any calcium score that i know of (thats been shared with me anyway) but i do not I've got calcium build up thats been shown on x-rays. May bicuspid was quite calcified. Since AVR with mechanical should this be something I need to look into? Ask my cardiologist or primary care?

 

[johnnycake23]

Thanks to all who replied. I go to my cardios next week. I'll run it past them and see what they say. I'll share when I find out. Thank you.

 

[cldlhd]

I take it. I've read a lot of beneficial things about it but it's one of those things where you never know if it's helping or not. Also I think most doctors are conservative when it comes to recommending supplements.

 

[Andrew]

Hi Johnny,
I have had my PVR in 2010 when I received a human pulmonary valve. Since 2013 I've been taking a decent dose of D3 and K complex vitamins (including K1 + K2 Mk4 and Mk7).
Now I've just had a new OHS 3 weeks ago. My surgeon said that the pulmonary homograft I received in 2010 has shown absolutely zero calcification after 8 years.
I will definitely go on with these vitamins for good.

 

[dick0236]

Other than a daily multi-vitamin that contains zero vit K I've never taken supplements of any kind. I just eat a normal diet with normal vit K and have a typical activity level (for an 82 year old). I get a Basic Metabolism Panel (BMP) each year with my physical exam and the Calcium component has been in the normal range (8.4-10.2 MG/DL) for the past several years. I'm not sure if this is important to this discussion but as most of you know I have been on warfarin a long time (51 years). Sometimes I think we get caught up in marketing hype regarding supplement products...........FWIW.

 

[Nocturne]

Anyone interested in Vitamin K2 should keep an eye on this study and check the results when they are eventually (hopefully) published:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01002157

 

[Agian]

They talk about Vitamin K in a very general way and then claim K2 can reverse arterial calcification. How is it possible to dissolve calcium? If we could do that, we wouldn't need valve replacements. Sounds like the guy who wrote it doesn't understand English and read the research he's citing wrong.

K2 might slow down progression of arterial plaque, or even reverse soft plaque, but it can't reverse calcification.

 

[Nocturne]

They talk about Vitamin K in a very general way and then claim K2 can reverse arterial calcification. How is it possible to dissolve calcium? If we could do that, we wouldn't need valve replacements. Sounds like the guy who wrote it doesn't understand English and read the research he's citing wrong.

K2 might slow down progression of arterial plaque, or even reverse soft plaque, but it can't reverse calcification.

Agian, are you talking about the study I just posted a link to? It's a study in progress. It isn't even hoping to find a reversal of arterial calcification in humans (the reversal mentioned was in animal models); it's looking to see if K2 supplementation will slow down CAC progression. So it's as you say -- K2 might slow down progression of arterial plaque. They are checking to see if it does in fact do that.

 

[cldlhd]

Humans are animals.

 

[Agian]

Agian, are you talking about the study I just posted a link to? It's a study in progress. It isn't even hoping to find a reversal of arterial calcification in humans (the reversal mentioned was in animal models); it's looking to see if K2 supplementation will slow down CAC progression. So it's as you say -- K2 might slow down progression of arterial plaque. They are checking to see if it does in fact do that.

Fair enough, I was probably nit-picking. It's badly worded. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could reverse arterial/valve calcification. You just never know what lies ahead.

 

[Agian]

Humans are animals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7bEVnFlds

That was Pellicle trying to get through Customs in Finland.

 

[pellicle]

That was Pellicle trying to get through Customs in Finland.

I stopped using the bag in later years ...

 

[Agian]

I stopped using the bag in later years ...

I heard you got busted with a suit case full of cigarettes and made a cock of yourself in the airport.

 

[pellicle]

I heard you got busted with a suit case full of cigarettes and made a cock of yourself in the airport.

that was a misunderstanding, I never packed that boogie bag myself

 

[Nocturne]

Humans are animals.

True, but they are not -- with very few exceptions -- rats or mice. Penicillin is toxic to guinea pigs and all that.

 

[pellicle]

book link
https://www.openbookpublishers.com/h...-5/Ch-17.xhtml

It is clear from Hamre’s results with purer preparations that some of penicillin’s immediate and delayed effects were due to impurities. Nevertheless, daily doses 7-12 times those used in patients could result in lethargy, weight loss and often (but not invariably) death after 3-7 days. However, a dose approximate to that used clinically administered even for twenty days did not kill the guinea pigs.

Hamre thus stated:

The fact that present preparations are toxic for guinea pigs when given subcutaneously does not mean that penicillin is toxic for man. When treated with the same dose of penicillin per kg. as that given to man, guinea pigs did not die and, in fact, failed to show any signs of toxicity. However, it is suggested that chronic toxicity for man be borne in mind