Vitamin K and Soy

[Swill]

My dad came across this article and passed it on to me, and I thought I would share it...

The Downside of Soy Consumption

Cheers,

Swill

 

[Nancy]

That was very interesting Swill-

I remember quite a long time ago hearing similar things about soy, then it became the darling of the healthfood gurus, and all of these things were forgotten.

I'm glad you posted the article. Thanks.

 

[bvdr]

Thanks Swill, that was very interesting.

When I left Duke I received very few specific instructions but one
instruction I did receive was to take absolutely no herbal or soy supplements.

 

[Missy]

I always thought that soy was loaded with vitamin k. In fact I think we had some discussions on here about long ago. I did not know that it was an anti coagulant. Am I reading this correctly? I would like to hear some other comments on this. I know quite a few people including family that take soy.

 

[Nan]

Hi, I could not pull up that site.....as I am a vegetarian and rely heavily on soy as my main source of protein I am very interested in what it had to say. Does soy interact with coumadin/warfarin? If so, my level must be adjusted to accomodate it?

Could someone paraphrase the info for me? Thank you so much.

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Last weekend we went out for founde. I was concerned about the amount and type of oil being used to cook our food. They told us it was soybean. My INR tested within range 3 days later a 3.1 Actually, it did not budge from the previous week.

 

[ccrawford]

Nan - This was a fact packed article which would be hard to summarize completely, but two items stood out. Soy acts as an anticoagulant in a way that vit k cannot counteract. Soy also can cause vitamin deficiencies of various types. Chris

 

[terry40]

Thanks for the article

Thanks for the article

At cardiac rehab they pushed the soy products, but I've read it can interfere with coumadin, so now I watch my soy intake.

It took 6 months to get in therapeutic range, but for 4 months now I have been, with no further increase/decrease in coumadin dose.

Becoming aware of all the different food/products that affect coumadin levels has helped a great deal, and I still get to eat all my favorite green veggies.

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Perry, ...what was your experience with INR levels while you were taking the soy? Curious

 

[Perrster]

A Soy Protein drink a day

A Soy Protein drink a day

I haven't had much of a problem with Soy.

Intially I started Soy supplements to fight Cholesterol along with Red Yeast Rice. Eventually the RYR didn't work (and became very hard to find), so they put me on Lipitor, however I just kept the Soy thing going.

As diet "consistency" is the key to achieving therapeutic INR levels, I have been having a Soy supplemental drink daily for well over two years. (I don't count my first year post surgery, because it took me a year to figure out what the heck I was doing).

INR has always been in range because I don't experiment much with my diet. I get tested once monthly at Cardio office using a Coaguchek unit. They will soon have their finger stick Cholesterol checker up and running so we'll see where my HDL/LDL/Triglycerides have landed.

My biggest problem now is alcohol which causes me an almost immediate bloody nose case. Wahh! I'll have a beer once in awhile now, but it's not easy turning down another cold one! The good old days aren't what they used to be and I've learned to accept it and just ask for Sharps or O'Doul's. Gina, I'm afraid our days of tipping a bottle of Merlot are over!

Again, consistency is my key. If I only have alcohol on weekends, it's not good.

I'm not sure just how much Vitamin K is needed in the diet of a mechanical valver, but my only source of K is my Centrum and the Soy. Salads are not in my diet.

So, I still do Soy practically every day and a "downside" discussion will not change it unless by some chance my Cardio brings it up and orders me to stop.

Regards,

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Thanks Perry Did you have a nose bleed after we tipped that bottle at our house? Hope not! Next time you have a broccoli salad along with it.

Light bulb goes on! I think we should try to hold a monthly
"pot luck" dinner alternating homes throughout the winter. What do you all in the area think? Might be a way to get us all together on a regular basis!

Wine does not have a large effect on my INR. In fact, over the last few weeks I enjoyed one glass with dinner. INR 3.1 two weeks in a row. How about that for consistency. Bet if you added a few very small iceberg salads weekly you would not see much of a change in your INR. Found this to be the case. When I was avoiding things my INR was all over the place. Eating a little bit of what I like here and there.....adds more consistency. Go figure, I am not the poster child for Warfarin. Everything that has been discovered and holds true for most...works in reverse on me!

 

[Anne-Marie]

I eat a lot of soy products. I guess it's consistency that's the key as with other products that are high in vitamin K. As long as you remain consistent, according to my dietician, it's fine to have vitamin k in your diet. She says it's the sudden changes that mess up the INR.

 

[Karlynn]

My cardiologist said she doesn't understand why Vit K is even put in vitamin suppliments because it's not something you need to go out of your way to include in your diet. Sure would make it easier on all of us if Vit K wasn't intentionally added to vitamins and other health foods.

Gina - did you have your avatar before or after the 49 - 7 loss? This could be a very painful season for those of us in Bears country.

Karlynn

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Hi Karlynn. My husband said flying that Avatar should prove to be very embarrasing this season. I am a die hard fan...got to take the good with the bad Looks like they are going to choke.

PS. Are you close to the city?

 

[Nan]

Chris, thanks for your answer....and interesting comments from everyone else!

 

[Karlynn]

Gina,
I live in the NW suburbs and also a die-hard fan. Although, to keep on topic, I'm fearful that this season could affect my INR more than any soy or Vit K I could take!!!

Karlynn

 

[LUVMyBirman]

We would love to meet you Karlynn. VR.com reunion is coming up soon right here in Rosemont. Why don't you join us!

If you so decide, log your intentions under one of the reunion threads. Main dinner is on 10/10.

Hope to see you then!

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure that I buy her argument at the start of the article. I've never heard that B12 entered into the clotting cascade. It has a role in pernicious anemia but that affects the red cells not the clotting factors.

If it is anti-thyroid then more soy would counteract the thyroid. Thyroid has an effect on clotting by causing metabolism of the clotting factors. So more soy causes less thyroid which causes more clotting factors so the exact opposite would be true.

I have never understood the rationale behind soy being such a health food product. Some of my high school classmates are soy farmers. Weeds are a nemesis of soy. They used to pull a disk behind a tractor to cut up the weeds. But then gas got too expensive. They also paid people to walk the bean fields and chop down the weeds. But then you started having to provide port-a-potties, pay social security or take a risk that your illegal immigrants were going to be rounded up just when you needed them. So Roundup was invented (maybe that is how it got its name). Beans are a broad leaf plant and Roundup kills all broadleaf plants. So the soy beans were genetically modified to make them immune to Roundup. Now when the soy is planted they use monster tractors that cut furrows for the beans, put the seeds in and spray Roundup to kill the weeds all at the same time. Later in the summer they spray Roundup on the field again. That way you save gas $$ and don't have to worry about actual people except the one person driving the tractor.

I grant that there are some organically grown soy beans but they are a very small part of the market and very expensive because of the labor intensity.

One of the few foods that is not genetically modified is Corn Nuts. My classmates grow them too but they only way that they will do it is on a contract for so many $$ per acre no matter what comes out. They have to do it that way because they never know how many bushels they are going to get because of the lack of genetic uniformity.

 

[Nan]

Hi Al, my goodness, now I wonder what I am eating...although I am not a vegetarian for "health ' reasons, but rather for humane ones, I would certainly like to think that the food I eat is OK!!!

Interesting to have that info, however.

But then, I guess farm grown salmon is now having problems and beef has hormones, so whatever we do there seems to be something.

Thanks for your input.

 

[sharon]

vit K content of soy

vit K content of soy

I know this is an old post but I want to just let everyone know that tofu has very little vit K in it. According to the coumadin list 1/2 cup only has 2gms. 7 tblsp of soybean oil has 193 gms. You'd have to consume a great deal of food to get to 7 tblsps. I believe that I read somewhere that the soybean is rich in vit K, but once it's been processed into tofu, soy milk etc the K content is greatly reduced. I'm a vegie too and have been eating tofu and soy milk and cheeses made from soy for years and it's never done anything to my inr in the 6 1/2 yrs that I've had my St. Judes valve.
Sharon