Track Days Motorsport etc.

[Guest]

Hi All,
I've known about my heart murmur and BAV for most of my life, and I've never let it rule my life until I was diagnosed with a 4.1cm enlarged aorta. To say this has screwed up my life is an understatement, I'm still alive but too scared to de anything and at 41 I still want to be active. I got the news last September & haven't exercised since as I don't want to do anything to make it burst & my cardio said only walking is safe exercise. I've put on weight become depressed & drink far too much as it makes me forget how low I've become.
Before I was diagnosed one of my passions was track days but my wife won't allow me to take my 450BHP impreza to the track anymore as she's scared the high blood pressure of a track day or a crash will burst my aorta. I've been told ill probably need a replacment mechanical valve and aortic graft in a couple of years & warfarin will rule me off the track.
I'm planning on taking my car out regardless of my wife's views as right now my life feels dull and pointless, and after surgery it will be a bad idea so I'd like to have a few last outings before it's too late.
Has anyone else been in this situation & am I wrong to do this will it really be dangerous or is my wife over reacting?

Thanks, Richie.

 

[Richie Rich]

Sorry forgot to log in.
Richie.

 

[Agian]

BAV is associated with aortic dilatation. They will fix that when they replace the valve. Yes, I am in your situation. My ascending aorta is 4.1 and I still work out, but don't lift super-heavy. I'm sorry to hear that your cardiologists told you walking is the only safe exercise. I spoke to a number of cardiologists and they told me 4.1 is mild (almost upper limit of normal). It is possible you're over-reacting, but if you only found out recently, I can understand your reaction. I found out that I will need OHS mid 2013 and I became quite miserable. I too put on weight, which I am now losing. I've lost about 5kg since the beginning of the year. I'm having whey, low-carb protein shakes for breakfast and dinner and they quell my hunger... somewhat.

 

[Agian]

Don't be sad brah.

 

[AZ Don]

I only had a few weeks from the time I found out I had an aneurysm to the time I needed surgery, but my understanding is that moderate aerobic exercise is generally not considered a problem for those with an aortic aneurysm and may in fact be recommended. Especially with one so mild. Regarding the track, severe emotional stress is not a good thing for those with an aneurysm, but again, 4.1 is considered very mild. Re. the risks from an accident, perhaps they went up a little but everyone has to decide such things for themselves. Many healthy people would not take the risk to drive on a track and many others probably regularly take risks higher than you would have on the track. A second opinion might be helpful for you.

FYI, some discussion and references to exercise, stress, and aneurysms: http://www.valvereplacement.org/for...2576-exercise-and-stress-with-aortic-aneurysm

FYI, Here is an article by a runner living with an aortic aneurysm, for years: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204047504574384973660445730
The author won the Pulitzer Prize for his series of articles related to living with an aortic aneurysm: http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2004-Explanatory-Reporting

 

[epstns]

Don - Thanks for posting the links. When I read the top one, I felt somehow reassured that what I've done in my training makes sense. I was never an elite athlete, but I was competitive with myself, and drove myself pretty hard for my age. After valve replacement, bypass surgery (with valve) and a pacemaker, along with some deterioration of my knees, I cannot run any more. But I have changed my exercise activities and continue to work out 5 days a week - riding a stationary bike and power-walking on an inclined treadmill. In such activities, I have adjusted to my current limitations and no longer feel inclined to post new personal records. I merely track my performance in order to monitor my heart function, so that I can alert my cardio at the first sign of any change.

Like so many others here, I'm probably in better shape than the average man 10 years my junior (I'm now 67) - probably because we heart valve patients have learned earlier in life the importance of physical conditioning in maintaining health in our later years.

 

[edfagan]

At 37 I had the surgery. I was giving a choice on the valve. I choose the tissue valve to avoid the warfarin, and keep my active live style. AZ Don, thanks for the WSJ article. Might be a possibility.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

sounds to me like a reaction to the information. Its like distubing a pendulum. It will ultimately fall back into its cycle. Once humanity would panic enmass if there was a comet or an eclipse, fearing it would signal the end of the world. Tomorrow came and went to become yesterday and we're all here.

To say this has screwed up my life is an understatement,

actually I'd say it reflects how you feel now, but its such an overstatement as to be almost comic. We've all been there but do remember its a temporary thing ... like the eclipse.

. I've been told ill probably need a replacment mechanical valve and aortic graft in a couple of years & warfarin will rule me off the track.
I'm planning on taking my car out regardless of my wife's views as right now my life feels dull and pointless, and after surgery it will be a bad idea so I'd like to have a few last outings before it's too late.
Has anyone else been in this situation & am I wrong to do this will it really be dangerous or is my wife over reacting?

I know for the enthusiastic even a short break from such things will seem like the end of the world. So I'd say after you get your aneurysm fixed and have a new mechanical valve go get back into motorsport and enjoy life as before.

I would consult the rules about your race licence and see if you indeed are ruled out. I would say a Dr friendly to racing may just give you a medical clear if such is even needed.

Warfarin does not make you more likely to have an intercranial bleed it just makes managing it more tricky. The new aorta will not be weaker it will be stronger. So just be happy ti was found.

When I was in my 20's my mates told me I didn't push my bike hard enough ... I used to say I'm not in this for the short term. I'll be doing this when I'm 50 and you'll either be dead or incapable or give up.

Here I am at 51 still riding

So I say ... take the orders as they are , be prudent and then get back into it

 

[Richie Rich]

Hi All,
Thanks for all the replies. Perhaps I am over reacting, but finding out about the aneurism was just the icing on the cake for me as I've been Ill all my life with chronic asthma as well as having a heart murmur & BAV. I'm scared to death about surgery but I figured if I kept fit I would last until retirement age before needing a big heart op. I got fit & stayed fit for over 10 years even though exercising meant I could hardly breath while doing it. Walking just doesn't work for me & I've put on 2 stone since giving up exercising & I'm constantly breathless & wheezing.
I really appreciate all the comments, but what I really want to know is have any other members been on a race track with an enlarged aorta or am I just insane to consider this. Not exercising & getting fat is getting me down but I know being back on the race track will make me feel better. I was led to believe that after the op due to warfarin it would be a bad idea, but if I'd be allowed on track then great. I could be waiting a couple of years for the op & I'm bored so I'd like to get on track now, I'd have the surgery tomorrow even though I'm terrified just to get back to normality .

 

[pellicle]

Hi Richie

... but finding out about the aneurism was just the icing on the cake for me as I've been Ill all my life with chronic asthma as well as having a heart murmur & BAV.

I understand. I went to a checkup back in August 2011 and the replies and guarded nature of the technician doing the ultra sound tipped me off that he'd found something. Nobody told me anything till my third test (which was an angiogram) and the cardiologist told me on the table (while the Dr still had catheters in my leg) that I had a severe aneurysm and I would need surgery to fix that urgently.

my first reply was "ok, so, do I get to go home or are you wheeling me up there now".

I had expected to hear that my valve was slowly failing and would need to be replaced in a year or so ... I was quite stunned to hear I could have died on the ski tracks earlier from a ruptured aorta. Now that would really have been a shock for my wife.

I'm scared to death about surgery

That's undrestandable and I've always been apprehensive about surgery. I guess that what I do is to calm myself before I get terrorised with these thoughts. I liked the book Dune and liked the Bene Gezerit prayer to calm ones self:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Ge...y_against_fear
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain

but I figured if I kept fit I would last until retirement age before needing a big heart op. I got fit & stayed fit for over 10 years even though exercising meant I could hardly breath while doing it. Walking just doesn't work for me & I've put on 2 stone since giving up exercising & I'm constantly breathless & wheezing.

I think that's pretty much what my approach was, although I did that after my valev surgery in 1991 .. to keep it ing ood order. That last bit shows me however that its time to change the valve. For you the bonus is that you won't later be shocked by an aneurysm after you've had a valve put in.

what I really want to know is have any other members been on a race track with an enlarged aorta or am I just insane to consider this.

I think that's a big ask here but you never know. There was a fellow some time back who was a motorcycle racer but his issue was concern about post operation. As to insane I can't answer that, but as to unsafe and unwise I would say most definitely. If you have any regard for the intentions behind the safety procedures in racing (helmets, harness, cage) then you would understand that its about surviving a crash to race again another day. A mate of mine put his westfield into a barrier at the apex of a corner. He got a broken sternum and was out for some months. If you had a similar accident before your surgery you would be out - period.

then there is your wife ... if you have any concern for her then you will have to ask about how her life will be turned upside down sorting out your estate, handling your funeral, going through all your stuff and deciding what to do with her life. I can assure you since this will not be a total surprise she will eventually have the thought "why did he do that".

You have the rest of your life to get back to racing. I suggest you re-arrange your priorities to eating carefully and staying healthy with less hard core exersize. I too gained weight and hated that I was becoming fat at 26. After the surgery I put my effort into recovery and I fought hard (physically and mentally) to get fit and strong again. You know, something you fight to get back is always worth more to you than what you were born with...

You will emerge on the other side of surgery both stronger and wiser.

All thinks have a time and a place, to me western society focuses on pretending we are "Nineteen forever" and ignores the natural cycle of birth, growth, ageing and death. All are natural and all are unavoidable. You can fight that and loose or you can accept it and find peace and happiness.

Best Wishes

PS: life in reality is not something we control, we do our best to manage what happens to us. You may be unprepared to bow out of motor racing (indeed its not yet certain you will have to), I can assure you I was quite unprepared for my wife to die without warning or sign from a brain tumor. Life is indeed not in our control and it is a fantasy to think it is.

We may be good at what we have prepared for, but the real test is being able to deal with what you are not prepared for. I am uncertain I am dealing well with my wifes passing, but I am doing my best. I can only say to you to do your best with dealing with what is before you.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I found this on CAMS (which is our race licencing organisation)

http://docs.cams.com.au/CAMS Forms/Competitors/Medical Standards 2012.pdf

The part on page 10 suggests specialist determination is needed if you are on anticoagulants. A mate of mine who is in his late sixties and races historic says the old buggers he knows just find a friendly medico.

Let me known if you want some supporting references to take along with you

 

[epstns]

Richie - As always, in these situations, pellicle has made some of the best comments I could imagine. I've been at all of this for almost 15 years, and some of his comments were so true for me that even now they bring me close to tears of gratitude that somebody else "gets it."

I'm also a "recovering gearhead." I raced autocross (cars, not bikes) and drag raced for most of my younger years and still love the sound of highly tuned engines being played like violins.

I have no experience with aneurysm patients and racing, but I did have the unfortunate experience of losing a long-time friend in the sport. My friend was driving a wild 1969 Camaro Z-28 on track at Road America (Elkhart Lake, WI) when he mysteriously went off track at about 145 MPH, rolling the car. He was dead on scene, but it wasn't until later that they found that he had suffered a massive coronary while hurtling down the straight and was dead before he could attempt the turn. We tried to comfort his widow and ourselves that he had died doing what he loved, but the fact of the matter that still haunts me is how unnecessary his death was. He knew he had heart issues but they didn't show up in his annual drivers' physical. He just wanted to race. He could have raced for many more years had he listened to the voice of reason. Please be careful.

 

[tom in MO]

...Not exercising & getting fat is getting me down...

Sorry to be a bit brutal, but it is not just the lack of exercise making you fat. It's the intake of food and beverages (e.g. soda, alcohol, milk) plus the lack of exercise, compounded by depression (i.e. eating to feel good) that is making you fat. In addition, at age 41, your metabolism is changing as well, it usually requires a cut back in caloric intake as well.

Cut back your eating to match your drop in exercise and drink water. It's OK to be hungry. : )

 

[pellicle]

Eps

I'm also a "recovering gearhead." I ... drag raced for most of my younger years ....

mini skirt and blouse over the leathers or more the mardi gras look?

:-D

He knew he had heart issues but they didn't show up in his annual drivers' physical. He just wanted to race. He could have raced for many more years had he listened to the voice of reason. Please be careful.

exactly ... be in it for life, for a long life of being in it.

 

[epstns]

Eps



mini skirt and blouse over the leathers or more the mardi gras look?

:-D

You know, I haven't decided yet. . .

 

[pellicle]

You know, I haven't decided yet. . .

exactly, free to swing ... don't tie yourself down, that would be more like bondage ... which isn't very racey

;-)

 

[cldlhd]

I've never been on warfarin so I can't really speak to how it would or wouldn't limit you, there's plenty of people on here that know far more than me about that . I'm more interested in commenting on your depression. I can understand how getting (potentially) life changing news and possibly having to give up one of your favorite hobbies could be depressing. Your comments on how life seems pointless is a bit concerning though,unless that was overstating to make a point. You mention your wife and not that it's any of my business but I was wondering if you guys had any kids or plans to have any. I didn't have my son until I was 37 and now 8 years later I can't tell you how many things I enjoy doing with him and my wife that I wouldn't have imagined I would be so into back when I was 25. Even without kids I'm sure you love your wife and can find fulfillment in life without the track, and this comes from a fellow lover of the Otto cycle.As you grow older your life naturally changes sometimes for good sometimes bad. Twenty some years ago typical Saturday night for me would have been whooping it up with my buddies all night long but now it's more likely to consist of cooking on the grill, lighting up the fire pit so my wife and son can make smores while I whack back a few pale ales and afterwards maybe a movie. I'm not complaining as I enjoy it . I still get the guy time but now it's usually Friday happy hour and the occasional night out.
Pellicle is a Westfield kind of like a Caterham or an old Lotus 7?

 

[Richie Rich]

I've never been on warfarin so I can't really speak to how it would or wouldn't limit you, there's plenty of people on here that know far more than me about that . I'm more interested in commenting on your depression. I can understand how getting (potentially) life changing news and possibly having to give up one of your favorite hobbies could be depressing. Your comments on how life seems pointless is a bit concerning though,unless that was overstating to make a point. You mention your wife and not that it's any of my business but I was wondering if you guys had any kids or plans to have any. I didn't have my son until I was 37 and now 8 years later I can't tell you how many things I enjoy doing with him and my wife that I wouldn't have imagined I would be so into back when I was 25. Even without kids I'm sure you love your wife and can find fulfillment in life without the track, and this comes from a fellow lover of the Otto cycle.As you grow older your life naturally changes sometimes for good sometimes bad. Twenty some years ago typical Saturday night for me would have been whooping it up with my buddies all night long but now it's more likely to consist of cooking on the grill, lighting up the fire pit so my wife and son can make smores while I whack back a few pale ales and afterwards maybe a movie. I'm not complaining as I enjoy it . I still get the guy time but now it's usually Friday happy hour and the occasional night out.
Pellicle is a Westfield kind of like a Caterham or an old Lotus 7?

Yes I have a three year old daughter and a twenty one year old step daughter and I love doing family things with both of them and my wife. I own and run my own car repair garage and work long and hard, Motorsport and fitness were my only forms of relaxation and now it seems I've lost both. I love family time but sometimes I want a little me time. The booze is what I now use to relax & I know it's not good for me but it is a stress buster. Ironically I had an echo yesterday & was told I'm stable so don't need another for two years and an MRI on my aorta in five, but still the same restrictions on exercise. I've been told my LV enlargment has reduced to normal size now probably due to going from high intensity exercise to no exercise for over a year. Most would see this as good news but I was hoping to be told I need to replace my Aorta & valve so I can get a life. Yes life is pointless right now & if it weren't for my wife & daughters I doubt I'd make any effort atall.

Oh and a Westfield is a kit car very similar to a Caterham, not driven one but I did take a Caterham around Silverstone which was great fun.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Pellicle is a Westfield kind of like a Caterham or an old Lotus 7?

yea, as Richie says ... one of these:

normally it has a 1.6 motor like a toyota in it, but I do know of one with a small V8

 

[fdeutschmann]

Richie, I have (had) a BAV with associated aortic dilation diagnosed 14 years ago (aorta 46mm at the sinus in 2002), and I was very active tracking a variety of cars, so maybe this will help you make your own decision.

In 2012, I was a passenger in a BMW 1M (gorgeous, Burnt Orange, virtually new, very fast, no track prep other than shaved sticky tires) driven by an instructor with a car club at Lime Rock (CT, USA). Long story short, we hit a tire wall broadside (driver's side) at about 70-80 mph (so a bit over 100 kph). We were both wearing helmets and the conventional street three point shoulder belts; all the airbags deployed, all the glass in the car shattered, and the car was totaled. I ended up with a minor concussion that took about a month to resolve, a very, very sore neck, and the entire left side of my body (side towards collision) was black and blue, shoulders to feet, from slamming into the seat bolster and center console. No serious injury to either of us, and everything resolved within a month or so. My (overly cautious and conservative) docs sent me for brain and cardio CT scans; everything was negative. (At the time, my aorta measured 49mm at the sinus.)

My cardiologist - a really great guy, couldn't ask for a better, more caring doc - politely encouraged / lectured me to not do any track activity at least until my aorta is repaired, advice that I have followed.

This incident is, I think, the best possible bad crash you can have on a track: bad in that the car was totaled at high speed; best possible in that we both walked away.

I'm not a doc, nor an expert on anything in these areas, so what follows is NOT advice, but is just my own decisions / resolutions for my own circumstance: although I have driven many cars (Porsche 911, Audi S4, etc) on track at speed, I resolved that I would never again drive or ride in a conventional street car on track at speed; I'm willing / excited to track at speed in a properly prepped (6 point harness, HANS device, roll bars / cage) car, but not a conventional street car - the risk of serious injury in a minor crash is too high for me. Also, following my surgery, I'm currently (temporarily) on Eliquis; I'm not willing to engage in any risky activities on this drug, as these 'novel' anticoagulants are not reversible, unlike coumadin. In summary, as far as I'm concerned, it's not the G-forces or anything during 'normal' on-track driving; it's what happens if / when there is a mishap (which may not be my fault at all): I didn't want a relatively minor, survivable, crash to lead to dissection (or worse), and I don't want to bleed out.

YMMV, of course; let me know by post or PM if you want to talk more or want more details, etc....
-frank