G
Guest
http://astrazeneca.com/pressrelease/5217.aspx
You got it here before even the Wall Street Journal put it on their website.
You got it here before even the Wall Street Journal put it on their website.
Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:
This is for Al.
This is for Al.
Al,
My Naturopathic Doctor claims that the following supplement can be used instead of Coumadin/Warfarin. He claims he has 5 patients with mechanical valves on these supplements.
http://www.supplementsolutions.com/natto-z.htm
He says there is another product named: Plasmin+ that does the same.
Before anyone changes over there are a series of tests to be done and if anyone interested I can post them.
Your input please..
This is for Al.
Al,
My Naturopathic Doctor claims that the following supplement can be used instead of Coumadin/Warfarin. He claims he has 5 patients with mechanical valves on these supplements.
http://www.supplementsolutions.com/natto-z.htm
He says there is another product named: Plasmin+ that does the same.
Before anyone changes over there are a series of tests to be done and if anyone interested I can post them.
Your input please..
Don't you switch, Christina! There really are dedicated researchers who are devoting their working lives to come up with another drug that works as effectively as warfarin. I don't believe there is a huge conspiracy that those same researchers would squelch information of a natural remedy that is available. If for some reason there was no other choice than of course it may be worth a try but that just isn't the case.
I hope he doesn't actually have patients on this instead of warfarin. That thought is scary.
I hope he doesn't actually have patients on this instead of warfarin. That thought is scary.
LUVMyBirman
Well-known member
No way. I agree with Betty! As I mentioned in another post......banking on a better valve type in my lifetime. Hopefully there will not be the need for Coumadin at that point. Have another 20+ years to figure that one out.
Always go under the presumption. "If it ain't broke...don't fix it"
Always go under the presumption. "If it ain't broke...don't fix it"
G
Guest
AstraZeneca just gave up on 27 years of research with Exanta. If they thought for one second that they could get 1 person in 100 to switch from warfarin to this, they would buy every bottle that everyone could turn out and sell it at a huge profit.
I don't know what the naturopath is basing this on but I'd like to see a study of about 1,000 people taking it for at least 5 years and preferably longer before I would risk my body being paralyzed on it.
I don't know what the naturopath is basing this on but I'd like to see a study of about 1,000 people taking it for at least 5 years and preferably longer before I would risk my body being paralyzed on it.
4.317 posts on Valvereplacement.com coming up 4 years on it. March 25th.. No problems..Not even with it yesterday..When I went to dentist and had a gingivectomy done..No bleeding and stayed on my Coumadin.......Bonnie
G
Guest
We have had some other threads about Nattokinase. In fact two months ago this was posted.
"Only Coumadin so far (17mg a day, down from 26mg) and that will be for life as I have a mechanical St. Jude's. I try not to go to doctors because they just love to write those prescriptions. A magic pill for everything and they all carry side effects, remember that.
__________________
Christina "
Then look at http://www.valvereplacement.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10678&highlight=nattokinase
"Only Coumadin so far (17mg a day, down from 26mg) and that will be for life as I have a mechanical St. Jude's. I try not to go to doctors because they just love to write those prescriptions. A magic pill for everything and they all carry side effects, remember that.
__________________
Christina "
Then look at http://www.valvereplacement.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10678&highlight=nattokinase
Valve-Viking
Well-known member
It is correct Exanta is dropped after 27 years of research. The longterm
effect on the liver made it impossible to proceed with - although only one
person had some problems, it is one to many.
However the research and the over 1 billion dollars spent, is not spent
in vain, as the research will be used for a new study internally named
"AZD 0837". This substance has the same effect as Exanta, but a different
chemical set-up which is not supposed to effect/harm the liver. The problem
here is that the effect of this drug is too short. Now the research is aimed
at preparing the drug in a way so that it´s effect will last longer. It is
expected that it will take at least two years before this latest anticoagulant
drug, will go into any final clinical testing(phase 3 test).
I guess it´s a good thing the right conclusions were made re Exanta, but it
is even better all the research is used for onward efforts to find an future
alternative to Warfarin. But as Mr Lodwick has mentioned, we are still many
years away from that still.
/
Martin
effect on the liver made it impossible to proceed with - although only one
person had some problems, it is one to many.
However the research and the over 1 billion dollars spent, is not spent
in vain, as the research will be used for a new study internally named
"AZD 0837". This substance has the same effect as Exanta, but a different
chemical set-up which is not supposed to effect/harm the liver. The problem
here is that the effect of this drug is too short. Now the research is aimed
at preparing the drug in a way so that it´s effect will last longer. It is
expected that it will take at least two years before this latest anticoagulant
drug, will go into any final clinical testing(phase 3 test).
I guess it´s a good thing the right conclusions were made re Exanta, but it
is even better all the research is used for onward efforts to find an future
alternative to Warfarin. But as Mr Lodwick has mentioned, we are still many
years away from that still.
/
Martin
G
Guest
I think that there were two people with serious liver problems. The first one had normal liver function when he had his last test and was dead of liver failure 29 days later - just one day before he was to have been tested again. He used 60 units of blood products but nothing was able to stop the hemorrhaging. This latest one mentions only serious liver damage - not death. This was a study to see if people benefitted from taking it for only 35 days after orthopedic surgery. It appears that when it was going to cause liver toxicity that it was likely to do so very fast.
Martin, Do you work for AZ? You are very up to date on this.
Martin, Do you work for AZ? You are very up to date on this.
Holy Cow Batman!
Holy Cow Batman!
"over 1 billion dollars spent"
With that kind of money, why don't they just learn how to monitor
warfarin better! What aspect of Exanta offers to pts. that warfarin doesn't, that couldn't be fixed with better testing? Warfarin has been around a long
time and is still number 1. Can someone tell me a prescription drug that has that kind of a record, that is so irreplaceable?
Holy Cow Batman!
"over 1 billion dollars spent"
With that kind of money, why don't they just learn how to monitor
warfarin better! What aspect of Exanta offers to pts. that warfarin doesn't, that couldn't be fixed with better testing? Warfarin has been around a long
time and is still number 1. Can someone tell me a prescription drug that has that kind of a record, that is so irreplaceable?
Emma
Well-known member
RCB, would exanta have allowed women to have children whilst taking it where warfarin doesnt (or isnt recommended)?? I don't know, just suggesting this might have been an advantage to it. Thats the one big thing I tend to think about for Chloe's future cos even at her age whilst playing with her dollies, she talks about 'when i have babies mummyy...' and it hurts me already to know I will have to tell her at some point its unlikely she will have any due to her warfarin as it is now.
Emma
xxx
Emma
xxx
G
Guest
In 15 years when Chloe is ready there will be huge advances. Pregnancy on warfarin is not an absolute no-no. It has been done quite often. It is just that it should not be unplanned.
The trade off
The trade off
Exanta would have allowed it only at the expence of her liver. I just think for
1 billion dollars they spent on Exanta,they might have figured out a way around this problem. They already know what the problem is with warfarin and prenatals, so why not work on that problem. You may want to visit a site that helps women to match them up with surrogate mother who could carry Chloe's egg to maturity, just to be informed about what her options are. She is 15 to 30 years out before a decision has to be made. A lot can happen in that time. Be honest and be prepared to tell her what her options are. 10-15 years ago, she might not have made it- look on the bright side!
The trade off
Exanta would have allowed it only at the expence of her liver. I just think for
1 billion dollars they spent on Exanta,they might have figured out a way around this problem. They already know what the problem is with warfarin and prenatals, so why not work on that problem. You may want to visit a site that helps women to match them up with surrogate mother who could carry Chloe's egg to maturity, just to be informed about what her options are. She is 15 to 30 years out before a decision has to be made. A lot can happen in that time. Be honest and be prepared to tell her what her options are. 10-15 years ago, she might not have made it- look on the bright side!
Emma said:
Valve-Viking
Well-known member
I am very far from the pharmaceutical world and definetely not an employee
of AZ.(I´m in textiles - very basic!)
But AZ is partly Swedish and I live not too far from where a lot of the research of Exanta has been done.
As the AZ stock is traded a lot here there is a lot of information available
in detail. So for a mechanical valver like myself, you can easily kill your
curiosity.
As for one billion dollar spent, this shows this is not just some homemade
drug cooked in a garage. I can think of billions of dollars spent that are more questionable then this...
/
Martin
of AZ.(I´m in textiles - very basic!)
But AZ is partly Swedish and I live not too far from where a lot of the research of Exanta has been done.
As the AZ stock is traded a lot here there is a lot of information available
in detail. So for a mechanical valver like myself, you can easily kill your
curiosity.
As for one billion dollar spent, this shows this is not just some homemade
drug cooked in a garage. I can think of billions of dollars spent that are more questionable then this...
/
Martin
Emma
Well-known member
15 years Al!!! Lets think 25 at least before she even gets a boyfriend let alone thinks *gasp* marriage and *bigger gasp* babies!!!!
Thankyou both for replying though!
xxx
Thankyou both for replying though!
xxx
Natanni
Well-known member
Was Exanta the most recent hopeful? I thought Exanta was pretty much ruled out for mechanicals a while ago....I know when Nathan had his valve surgery in Sept 05 the Mayo said that there wer trials with Exanta for mechanicals, but that this drug did in fact fail, but there was a newer drug on the not so far off horizen. Was Exanta what Al thought would be possible in 10 years?
I think Warfarin is fine, especially if one doesn't put themselves in harms way. The daily management has been no problem but there is RISK with this drug. Especially if one has a mechanical valve husband who snowmobiles ever single weekend, drives truck for a living, ATVs, and motorcycles. What is more shocking is that he has found MORE time for these activites post AVR. Never again will I rest easy when he goes off to play with his toys....And that is not even going into the overall risk for a spontaneous major bleed. I am still holdling out for a safer anticoagulant.
I think Warfarin is fine, especially if one doesn't put themselves in harms way. The daily management has been no problem but there is RISK with this drug. Especially if one has a mechanical valve husband who snowmobiles ever single weekend, drives truck for a living, ATVs, and motorcycles. What is more shocking is that he has found MORE time for these activites post AVR. Never again will I rest easy when he goes off to play with his toys....And that is not even going into the overall risk for a spontaneous major bleed. I am still holdling out for a safer anticoagulant.
G
Guest
There was never any published data that Exanta was tried for heart valves in people. The people at Mayo may know something that I don't being where they are on the food chain of research. I know it was tried in animals but I don't try to keep up with animal studies.
My guess is that the development stages of a warfarin replacement will go something like this.
1. Get a drug approved for orthopedic surgery. This is short trem 30 day use at the most. (This was the stage that AZ had backed off to on Exanta and it still failed.)
2. Get a drug approved for DVT in the legs. This would maybe limited to 1 year of use.
3. Get a drug approved for atrial fibrillation. This would be long-term and with a huge market - maybe 10% of the people over age 65.
4. Somebody will have another drug that looks good but little potential market with the first three taken. So they will try for a smaller niche - Mechanical Valves - and get it approved. The compilcating factor for #4 is that there are also races to find a mechanical valve that does not need warfarin and longer lasting tissue valves that do not need warfarin. Depending on the developments in valves option #4 may or may not be worth the effort to bring it to market.
I had a chance to ask someone way, way up in the international warfarin community last week if his/her company thought that warfarin was going to be around for a long time and the answer was, "Yes". Please do not ask any questions about this, I have a confidentiality agreement and will not elaborate further.
My guess is that the development stages of a warfarin replacement will go something like this.
1. Get a drug approved for orthopedic surgery. This is short trem 30 day use at the most. (This was the stage that AZ had backed off to on Exanta and it still failed.)
2. Get a drug approved for DVT in the legs. This would maybe limited to 1 year of use.
3. Get a drug approved for atrial fibrillation. This would be long-term and with a huge market - maybe 10% of the people over age 65.
4. Somebody will have another drug that looks good but little potential market with the first three taken. So they will try for a smaller niche - Mechanical Valves - and get it approved. The compilcating factor for #4 is that there are also races to find a mechanical valve that does not need warfarin and longer lasting tissue valves that do not need warfarin. Depending on the developments in valves option #4 may or may not be worth the effort to bring it to market.
I had a chance to ask someone way, way up in the international warfarin community last week if his/her company thought that warfarin was going to be around for a long time and the answer was, "Yes". Please do not ask any questions about this, I have a confidentiality agreement and will not elaborate further.
Natanni
Well-known member
I probably have the story somewhat confused, but I remember when we asked about Exanta, there was a mention of a "serious failure", it may not have been with mechanical valves, but I thought it was directly heart related, and with ?fatalities....but there was abundant info going around at that time, and I didn't write these things down. The upshot was, that Exanta would never be used with mechanicals, period...but that there was something else upcoming.
G
Guest
As far as I know, nothing has been tested in humans with mechanical heart valves. If there were any tests, they were never published in medical journals.
