The "Desert Island" Question

[ClickerTicker]

OK, I can't resist...

Assuming someone with a mechanical valve was shipwrecked on a desert island without warfarin - how long would they be likely to survive ?

I really don't have a good feel for this - we all know that warfarin keeps us ticking, but I've not seen this basic question addressed. Please excuse my morbid curiosity. I don't know if it's days, weeks, months or whatever.
Maybe it has been covered and I can't find it
Of course there are all sorts of other ways that a person could find themselves without warfarin, but the desert island scenario looked simple

 

[geebee]

I don't think there is an answer for this. I have heard a story of a woman - I think she lived in India - that went years without coumadin due to poor medical care.

I think it depends on how lucky (or not) you are.

 

[Karlynn]

The answer is - who knows?

As Gina said, there are reported cases of people going years without Coumadin and surviving. Yet we know that some people throw clots after just a short time off the drug.

It truly is anybody's guess.

Looks like I better start searching for natural Vitamin K inhibitors in the even I'm shipwrecked!

 

[Nancy]

Joe has been off Coumadin and had Vitamin K administered and plasma too to reduce his anticoagulation FAST. This has happened three times. Once when he almost bled to death after gallbladder surgery (off Coumadin for about two weeks), once when he fell on the ice and had enormous bleeding which went from his kidney area to his foot (off Coumadin for about 1 week), and just recently when he had a hemorraghic stroke (off Coumadin for about two weeks).

He has an aortic and mitral mechanicals.

These were all very scary for his doctors and for us. But it had to be done, since the conditions warranted it in all cases.

We were given talks about the risk in all cases. Starting up Coumadin again after this recent stroke was also scary, and we were given another talk about the risks either way. His INR is still in the low range for him.

Prior to the gallbladder surgery he was on Lovenox which might have contributed to the bleeding. Prior to the stroke he had been on IV Heparin. No one will commit to whether the Heparin contributed to the bleeding. He was tested for Heparin induced thrombocytopenia, and he did not have that. The strange thing is that his brother died very recently from a brain bleed, and he was not on anticoagulation. However he had a long history of taking Advil, especially for headaches. Could have been bleeding all along.

When he fell on the ice, he was within range, just an unlucky accident.

Don't know if this is a good response to your question, but it is related and interesting.

 

[Granbonny]

We oldtimers know of one member..who was off her coumadin for months..due to a brain bleed....Had her mechanical valve replaced with a tissue. she is doing great..Still hear from her..and she is doing great..so great, she hardly posts anymore ...I think it has been about 3 years now.. ..Bonnie

 

[Lynlw]

you know it's funny you ask that, when i was watching katrina last year w/ the people on their roofs and in the convention center, I rember thinking if any of them were on coumadin, I actually asked my husband if he thought when they took in food an water i wonder if they take in coumadin and insulan and other meds like that, Lyn

 

[Lynlw]

ps the reason I was thinking that is because I have a bad back and was wonderring about just not having pain meds or my spinal stimulator that needs batteries charged every 24 hours (but is broke now so that would be a moot point) but then I realized I would just be nasty and miserable, at least it wouldn't be a life threatning thing, Lyn

 

[Turkey Hunter]

I am not on ACT, but I have personal experience with a friend who has TWO mechanical heart valves and "chooses" to not take any ACT. This has been her practice for at least 15 years.
Who knows how long the luck can last. Maybe the whole idea of ACT is a CYA thing just as many warning labels. Just a point for discussion.

BTW, I tried to convince her to start the ACT, she refused.

Ben

 

[Karlynn]

Ben, that's really incredible (but inadvisable! ) I'd be interested to see an in-depth study of her blood chemistry.

BTW - been wanting to ask for a while, what is that in your avatar? A pheasant?

 

[tommy]

OK, I can't resist either.......

I'd eat leaves (leafy greens) and pray.

 

[bvdr]

It is an interesting question and I don't know if an answer is to be had. I don't even know if an anticoagulant has been used since the introduction of mechanical heart valves. If one hasn't been then possibly the need for it was discovered due to emboli from those early cases. Even though today's valves are improved some of that data may be helpful.

 

[mtkayak]

If I were stranded on an island with, let's say, Jessica Simpson. Umm, I don't think I would care about the Coumadin.

 

[catwoman]

I am not on ACT, but I have personal experience with a friend who has TWO mechanical heart valves and "chooses" to not take any ACT. This has been her practice for at least 15 years.
Who knows how long the luck can last. Maybe the whole idea of ACT is a CYA thing just as many warning labels. Just a point for discussion.

BTW, I tried to convince her to start the ACT, she refused.

Ben

Chooses or refuses?

Who is monitoring her health? Wonder if she has regular echoes?

Interesting.

However, I'm not a gambler.

 

[catwoman]

OK, I can't resist...

I really don't have a good feel for this - we all know that warfarin keeps us ticking, but I've not seen this basic question addressed. Please excuse my morbid curiosity. I don't know if it's days, weeks, months or whatever.
Maybe it has been covered and I can't find it
Of course there are all sorts of other ways that a person could find themselves without warfarin, but the desert island scenario looked simple

Ron:
How many of us would last long on a desert island, regardless of our health situation????
Some people's idea of "camping out" is spending the weekend at a budget motel (Motel 6 for those of you in the United States). Don't think these people would adapt to being stranded on a desert island.
What might save some warfarin patients -- if they were stranded on a desert island -- is the gastrointestinal ailments they might get by sampling any possible food items on the island. Half our vitamin K needs is produced in the GI tract; if you have a GI upset, it increases your INR if you don't reduce your dosage accordingly.
So -- it might just balance it out!

 

[dkapuscik]

OK Ron have you been watching Castaway again? I think in the movie the real character portrayed was actualy a Valver. He lived for several years without wafarin and when he returned to his home and saw his wife with another man the had an anurisum and died. Who knows if in fact he had been maintaining his INR for that period of time he would not have had the anurisum or if in fact the event was just to tramatic for him to take regardless of his INR.

 

[Turkey Hunter]

BTW - been wanting to ask for a while, what is that in your avatar? A pheasant?

It is an Eastern Subspecies of the Wild Turkey.

No offense, I had to laugh when I read your question Karlynn. It was too good!

Catwoman, She refuses!

 

[Karlynn]

I'm glad I didn't ask if it was a moose head!!! That was my first thought. But cut me some slack, I rarely wear my glasses when I'm at the computer.

That might be why my 2nd thought was that it was a Western subspecies of the wild turkey. (The only kind of wild turkey I recognize is in the liquor department at my supermarket!)

 

[PJmomrunner]

My maternal grandmother had an arrythmia for which, if she were living today, she would be on ACT. She was not allowed to run track in high school because of her arrythmia, so she had it at least from her teens until her death at 72 of "Alzheimers." I believe she actually had multi-infarct dementia caused by decades of little clots...but she did live decades.

 

[Granbonny]

Mike

Mike

If I were stranded on an Island and had a choice of one person to be with me.....................It would be...the World's Greatest Shipbuilder.. Bonnie

 

[ClickerTicker]

Ron:
How many of us would last long on a desert island, regardless of our health situation????
Some people's idea of "camping out" is spending the weekend at a budget motel

I did my spell of camping in the boy scouts - oh the delights of putting up an ex-army second world war bell tent We even had a "trek-cart" (a sort of human-powered rag and bone man thingy with two huge wheels)

Nowadays being separated from one's warfarin is more likely to be due to some sort of civil unrest or natural nasty. I guess if the desert island you end up on is a fair way from Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, the Middle-East or Korea - you may at least avoid the former.