Spider bite

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I’m sorry you got a bad gut reaction. I haven’t had any of that. It feels like I’m not taking an antibiotic. However, when I took Augmentin for 10 days for bronchitis, that really caused issues for my gut.
My scab fell off today and my skin looks better. Amazingly, I can still see the hole where the first open sore appeared!
 
Well, the clindamycin caused my INR to go up. Today-4.6.
The Coumadin clinic pharmacist will respond on that!
Hi Gail.

That is a pretty high INR reading. Of course nothing to panic about, but glad that they are aware of it and will make needed warfarin adjustments. In that it is known that antibiotics often significantly affect INR, they just checked your INR now? You have been the clindamycin since just after Thanksgiving. They waited until you were on it for about a month before checking your INR? It would seem prudent to check a warfarin patient's INR after being on a new anti-biotic for 4 or 5 days, to make sure that it was not affecting it. Am I missing something? Is there a reason why they waited a month to check your INR?
 
Hi Gail

so on the 16th of Dec, 2023 I said:

you may want to INR test mid week just to check that the antibiotics aren't pushing your INR in a high direction.

and then ...
Well, the clindamycin caused my INR to go up. Today-4.6.
The Coumadin clinic pharmacist will respond on that!
this is a well known and expectable outcome. I'm glad you tested and I'm nothing happened to you (meaning you didn't come to harm while your INR was high nor go higher longer).

Best Wishes
 
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I noticed that warning and communicated it to the Dr who prescribed it who basically said "that never happens, doesn't get absorbed through the skin, and no one gets that problem, keep using it". So of course it then did exactly that to me. I hate Drs....
you certainly have reported a few "Clangers" here over time.

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I don't know if its just because I'm getting smarter or if Dr's (on average) are getting dumber over time
 
I only started the clindamycin on 12/15.
I then tested my INR on 12/19 and it was high. Strange, since the Doc was going to give me Bactrim but changed it when he asked if I was on warfarin. My INR went higher than it did with the augmentin I took for 10 days after thanksgiving. That drug caused a 3.9 reading.
All my scabs have now healed and disappeared. I think I’m finally done with the spider bite. Maybe a hobo or wolf spider? I’ll never know.
Good tidings to you all!!
 
Hi Gail

I gathered that the gap must have been about mid week when I did the numbers (and its why I posted the space in time).

That drug caused a 3.9 reading.
Just a a background (and perhaps as much for other readers)

I would speculate that the cause of this was a change in my gut flora. Increasingly, we are uncovering and understanding the role that gut flora has on not only digestion but with producing stuff needed by us nutritionally. One such thing identified as being produced by the gut flora is vitamin K2. An excellent article on this correlation is found here at this URL. The article discusses the role of vitamin K in clotting (the coagulation cascade mentioned above), the role of vitamin K1 and K2, and mentions the role that is thought to be played by bacterially produced K2 in gut flora. Some further exploration of the role of antibiotics is found at this URL.

So now we have at least three external influences on your INR responce:
  • what we swallow as food or drugs,
  • what is happening in the toxin disposal (of warfarin) by P450 (mostly effected by drugs very few foods), and
  • what our gut biome is doing to generate K2 (can be affected by antibiotics).

HTH
 
Yes, that’s interesting.
Something I recently changed my mind about was the thought that high INR in the 6 range caused blood in urine. But, as it kept climbing to 9 in 2 days, I did some reading because I only had that one episode of blood, no more even with the 9 INR. I now think it was either the bacteria in my blood or that I was going into DIC.
 
or that I was going into DIC.
do you mean this:
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/disseminated-intravascular-coagulation
DIC progresses through two stages: overactive clotting followed by bleeding.
  • In stage one, overactive clotting leads to blood clots throughout the blood vessels. The clots can reduce or block blood flow, which can damage organs.
  • In stage two, as DIC progresses, the overactive clotting uses up platelets and clotting factors that help the blood to clot. Without these platelets and clotting factors, DIC leads to bleeding just beneath the skin, in the nose or mouth, or deep inside the body.
 
you certainly have reported a few "Clangers" here over time.

View attachment 889737


I don't know if its just because I'm getting smarter or if Dr's (on average) are getting dumber over time

You don't know the half of it. My life has been hell since October with a horrible neuropathic type issue that was misdiagnosed as a fungal/bacterial/yeast infection originally. Very long story. Have been bouncing around between Drs for 3 months now. No resolution in sight (unless I figure this out for myself although may already be screwed with nerve damage).

IMO the probs with most Drs isn't that they are getting dumber, it's that many:
- don't care
- have too many patients to handle which fosters the don't care about the hard case attitudes
- have no time to actually investigate anything to figure it out
- are controlled by "managed healthcare" systems to spend only 20 mins per patient then move on (unless they want to work during their time off)

A quick example of how bad my current GP is.....

As part of trying to figure out what is causing my current neuropathic issue (which is spreading) I asked him to please do a bunch of tests on me to see if anything jumps out. Had to suggest some myself and he decided on the others. One of those tests was for checking my vitamin D blood levels. And in that test I came out way low, less than 1/2 of what the minimum range should be. We discussed this in his practice's web portal, where I got the labs results myself and pointed out this deficiency in a msg to him then had to wait a week for him to even get back to me - only after posting twice (where the portal is supposed to involve a 48 hour response in the first place). So he told me to take 5000 unit supplements. I asked if he had any suggestions for one type/brand/formulation/etc to recommend (he never responded). So I researched it (had to educate myself on Vit-D and learned that D-3 was the type to get and chose a brand based on some reviews I read on-line).
Now taking TOO MUCH Vitamin D can cause serious problems. Once I get into normal range I should not be taking 5000 units a day. So I asked through the portal, at what point should I get retested to check my levels, and what should me new dosage be at that point etc etc etc.
It's now almost a month later and he has yet to respond to that question (which I asked 2 to 3 times so far). He's also ignored other Qs I've asked that I needed answers on. Whereas my previous GP (who retired) would get back to me the same day, or even within an hour at times.
I'm pretty damn fedup. Will probably now have to go to the trouble of switching to a different practice/finding a new GP as soon as Jan 1st rolls around at which point I will be allowed to do so with new insurance starting then and getting out of the HMO I am in now. Or might try calling the office this week and leave a msg with the receptionist which will pressure him to respond to the Vit-D question (which he may not appreciate).

Rant over.
 
Your GP sounds like he’s got too many patients or he hates his job.

Yes, my cardiologist said I was going into DIC (my nurse friend said it stands for death is coming)!,when I got endocarditis but wasn’t diagnosed yet.
 
IMO the probs with most Drs isn't that they are getting dumber, it's that many:
- don't care
- have too many patients to handle which fosters the don't care about the hard case attitudes
- have no time to actually investigate anything to figure it out
- are controlled by "managed healthcare" systems to spend only 20 mins per patient then move on (unless they want to work during their time off)
those are also on my list ...
 
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