Soy & low INR?

[Ticky]

My levels dropped really low during my brief stint at switching to soy milk. I found an article online related to this but was wondering if any of you had experienced it or know more about it. Why does soy affect it? How?

Thanks,
Lisa

 

[Karlynn]

You really have to be careful about products that include soy, and make sure you include them regularly, because it will drop your INR. Soy has a significant amount of Vit K in it.

If you are wanting to drink soy milk, then do it but be consistant and your dose will be adjusted accordingly.

Soy is a very popular source of protein in many health and diet foods now, so we need to keep a watch out for it. I don't worry about eating one protein bar with soy, but I know if I'm going to include it daily that my dose will need to go up.

 

[jwilliamsr]

Hi, Lisa.

I first found out about soy right here in these forums a month or so ago. Soy products can definitely contain vitamin K which helps your body to create more blood clotting factors which counteracts the effects of Coumadin. Therefore your INR will drop unless you increase your Coumadin dose appropriately. I have not found a real good way to know how much K is in any particular soy product. I was eating some protein bars with soy, so I contacted the manufacturer to try to find out how much soy the bars contained. They never responded.

I saw one source on the internet that suggested that soy milk contains 3mcg of K per cup, but I suspect that may not be consistent between different brands, lots, etc. Other sources say that the amount of K in soy products can vary significantly.

Karlynn is right on with her suggestion to drink it CONSISTENTLY and make sure your Coumadin dose is adjusted to compensate.

Would you share your INR numbers with us? How stable was it? What has it dropped to?

Best regards,
jimmy

 

[Ticky]

Jimmy-
My target range is between 2.5-3.5. I'm 3 months out from my valve replacement surgery and have on been in that range once or twice. I get tested twice a week. Anyway, when I was drinking soy my levels dipped to 1.1-1.5, they had been around 3.8 the week before. I'm having a really hard time regulating my INR level and have kept a spreadsheet of everything I've eaten after the hospital. It's frustrating because I've been consistent and the thing still fluctuates. I'm sure my blood condition doesn't help either.

Lisa

 

[aussigal]

Hi Lisa....yep...I posted here recently after soy dropped my INR too...I was surprised to learn it was full of Vit K....

You mention that your INR is all-over the place...and you are being tested twice a week....This could be the cause of your Yo-Yo levels if you are having your dose changed frequently ...it might be a good time to read up on how warfarin works. Its almost pointless to check INR's every 3 days as it takes about 3 days to be metabolised by the body and in this time your level will fluctuate . Als site is great for warfarin education and there are a few others on the net too that explain this much better than I do.

 

[Karlynn]

Ton beat me to it. I was also going to comment that testing 2 times a week is too much. How often is your dose being adjusted, and for what numbers is it being adjusted? Al Lodwick says he doen't make a dose change for an INR 4.0 or below. Don't forget that there is a pretty wide varience in an INR number. I believe it's +/- .5 - and that's pretty significant. So if you test at 3.9 and they adjust your dose down, they are over reacting. And I hope they aren't having you hold doses for anything less than 5 if you aren't bleeding.

When someone comes on and says that they are hard to regulate, our guess is that they either are expecting their numbers to be fairly consistent - like 3.2 - 3.4 each test, or they are having their Coumadin managed by someone or ones who really don't know what they're doing. There are people who are hard to regulate, but in reality, it's usually some outside factor that is the reason for it. Now I don't know how your Lupus alters this whole equation. So you are a special case. But even with that, testing 2 times a weeks is over-testing.

If you were low with soy milk and they raised your dose and then you stopped the soy, you are going to swing the other way.

Bottom line, test once a week at the most (the standard for those who go to labs is 1 time a month). And make sure you get your INR # the same day they test you. Is it a venous draw or a finger stick?

 

[jwilliamsr]

That's a pretty big dip in INR over a short time. Do you recall if your Coumadin dose was reduced during that week prior to the low INR's?

I know that's frustrating!

jimmy

 

[Ross]

Being tested twice a week is the reason that your having a difficult time stablizing. We hear it every day anymore. Some of these Coumadin managers really need to get with the program and stop guessing at what they are doing. This is the single largest reason that people home test and manage their own dosing.

 

[aussigal]

dont forget Soy Lecithen

dont forget Soy Lecithen

About soy...yesterday during a surf-of-the-WWW I came across a story about it. I know I should have saved it but anyway I was surprised to read that if you over-indulge in ice-cream (more than 1 litre per day ) apart from putting on lots of weight your INR could well go crazy cos it has lots of soy-lecithen in it. Soy is used more than you would think in our food products and we tend to forget to account for those additives.