Seeking international perspective on illegal immigration.

[Barry]

In a previous thread I had, with my usual flair for inadvertently offending folks, wondered aloud how many folks on these forums were from outside the USA. And the answer is... Lots!

So I've got a question for folks from outside the USA:

Here in the USA we've got a big problem with illegal immigration, mostly from Latin America and Haiti. And we've got a big problem with the US populace becoming polarized on how to deal with it.

Here's what I don't know - How do other countries deal with illegal immigration. If I were to come into Brazil illegally, what would happen to me if I got caught? If I were to come into Australia illegally, what would happen to me if I got caught? etc., etc., etc.

And outside the US, are there any sanctions imposed on employers who hire folks who have come into the country illegally?

Finally, what do other countries do to maintain border security? Here there are proposals from everything for completely open borders to closing the borders completely with walls and guard towers. Currently we mostly rely on intense security at common crossing areas, checkpoints on major highways a few miles in from the Mexican border, and fairly random Border Patrol patrolling of the desert regions above the border - along with Coast Guard inspection of shipping.

 

[Abbanabba]

As an illegal immigrant in Australia, it would probably depend on HOW you became an illegal immigrant and where you hailed from. For instance, if you were English and overstayed a work visa, you could probably get away with staying here much more easily that if you were a "boat person" from Afghanistan trying to gain illegal access via the coast.

Most "boat people" (those from Asian/Middle Eastern countries without appropriate paperwork) end up in detention centres while they are "processed", although there has been a lot of contraversy and political grandstanding over here lately as these cases are taking 3-5 years to work through. Having said that, my father legally immigrated to Australia in the 60's and was required to spend X amount of time in one of these detention centres while he was "processed" and cleared medically, so I don't think it is reasonable for these people to expect immediate access until their backgrounds are established - although it shouldn't take as long as it does.

Since 9/11 the government has been cracking down on illegal immigrants - particularly those from countries who are not part of the "great allegiance" (..although everyone is now under much closer scrutiny..). Families have been deported back to their country of origin and there has been a lot of controversy when some of them have had children born in Australia, or who's children were so young when they arrived that they know no other life.

One of the things I find really strange is that many immigrants here are from countries that despise the West and all we apparently stand for, yet they want to be able to live here and enjoy all the liberties and advantages from living in a Western civilisation - which includes being able to maintain their own language and culture. I don't have a problem with people acknowledging their history and culture, but I do believe that if you want to live in another country, you should be willing to accept the language and culture of that country - not just expect to continue living as you would in your own homeland.


.....and with that, I am stepping off my soapbox!!...


A : )

 

[lance]

Gaining access to Canada

Gaining access to Canada

There are more rules and regulations imposed on the importation of livestock into Canada than there are on humans entering the country.

Imported livestock are required to be kept in quarantine until their health status has been cleared--mandatory quarantine under lock and key.

Not so with humans.

 

[Barry]

Interesting perspective from Australia, Abbanabba. We have much the same controversy over assimilation v/s maintaining cultural identity here, and not just with immigrants, at least not recent ones: Most commonly identified as an issue with recent immigrants from Mexico and with decendants of Blacks who were forcibly brought here as slaves.

Lance, seems to me that some time ago that Canada had a big problem with illegal immigration from China, and from Hong Kong shortly before China took it over. Is that still the case? I liked your line about there being more restrictions on livestock than on people.

 

[Barry]

Pam Osse, there is a Federal law that prohibits employers from hiring illegal aliens. It is very seldom enforced, although WalMart just paid an $11 million fine to the Feds in a settlement for having done so - chump change, just the cost of doing business, for an organization as large as WalMart. They saved far more than $11 million by being able to hire cheap labor that won't go to the labor boards for labor-law violations.

That's one of the very few times that law has been enforced at all. If the Feds really wanted to stop illegal immigration they could stop it tomorrow by sending out auditors to review employers personnel records to ensure that they have the requisite I-9 form and a photocopy of the employee's documents of right to live and work in the USA (generally a Social Security Card or a Green Card).

Instead the Feds want to put on a great show by having Border Patrol agents running around playing tag in the desert with illegal aliens. US Corporations and many individuals in the US have gotten so dependent upon cheap illegal alien labor that the Feds have every interest in maintaining, not stopping, the flow of illegals.

It's like putting up a fence around your neighborhood because of all the people coming into it to buy dope, while ignoring the crack dealers standing on every corner.

You know, most illegal aliens are not coming into this country to go on vacation.

 

[lance]

Illegals come from everywhere

Illegals come from everywhere

As far as I'm concerned Canada has a problem with illegals from the rest of the world. They land wherever and disappear or claim refugee status and it can take years and years of legal wrangling to deport them. You know who pays, and pays and pays. Some of them undoubtedly gain access to the US from here. Not long ago several hundred blank passports disappeared from an embassy (can't remember which one).

Our border is not secure.

It's understandable why relations between our two countries are so strained. Hundreds of western farmers are bankrupt because our cattle cannot enter the US. It's a political decision based I think on the lack of our border security rather than science which has proven our cattle are as safe as any.

So every one of us pays for illegals one way or another. Some individuals more than others (beef farmers, softwood lumberers).

That's my two cents worth.

Cheers

 

[Barry]

Barry - as a fellow escapee from California, I'm not sure if you were still in the state when Prop. 28 (I think it was 28) passed, putting into law restrictions on what social services illegal immigrants could receive for free (school, medical care, driver's licenses, etc.). It passed in California RESOUNDINGLY - a state with a huge latino population.... I left the state not long after that so I'm not sure what happened with the bill, but I think that the legislature struck it down, due to protesters, which also amazes me, since the voters approved it!...

The US Supreme Court ruled it to be unconstitutional, a violation of the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection under the law.

I happen to disagree with that decision, and hopefully the Court will revisit the issue at some point. But ever since Marbury v. Madison, the Supreme Court has had the duty to invalidate laws that violate the Constitution, no matter how popular the law may be (something that had Thomas Jefferson in quite a snit at the time). If you want to enact a law that violates the Constitution as it's currently written, you've got to amend the Constitution first.