Runner with new St. Jude Aortic valve

[gmhart]

Hi Folks, This is my first time posting on this site. And I am kinda like Moses in the Bible as I am not the most eloquent of talkers so bear with this rambling note. I had a St. Jude Aortic valve put in 10 days ago. I have been running for 6 years since my VSD was repaired in 1998. I was running 5.5 miles a day up until a week before my surgery. The Doc told me my fitness level was masking my symptoms however I did almost pass out from lightheadednesss about a month ago. I have run numerous road races all across Oklahoma, including two marathons at the Oklahoma City Memorial. I walked a reallllll sllllooowww 7 miles yesterday and 4 miles today @ about 2.5 mph. My questions to anyone who might know. How long did you have to wait to run again and how in the world do you sleep at night without discomfort? This time around my chest seems to hurt alot worse when lying down.
Just a side note God Bless all of you and congratulations on your recovery.

 

[Granbonny]

Hi and Welcome

Hi and Welcome

I think you are our first member from Kansas..... I'm the Mother-Hen of the Group..so I think 10 days post-op and walking as much as you are doing is TOO soon. Your body has just went thru a major surgery..Give it time to heal...Like, 6 weeks..a stroll a day is fine... but MILES a day.. You will have a hard time healing...We have many runners on site..Weekends are slow around here..but they will post soon..Bonnie

 

[Mary]

Hi!
Welcome to the forum! Regarding your running at Oklahoma City, one of the VR members ran the Andy Payne Memorial Marathon over Memorial Day week-end. I believe he is on vacation, but I bet he will be tickled to find someone who has run the same marathon.
Thanks for the kind words about my son. Mothers are always proud!
And although I believe in fitness, I'm going to agree with Bonnie that you might be over doing it.
Mary

 

[Ross]

Might be overdoing it is an understatement. You are overdoing it! You don't want to be doing anything like that just out of surgery or you'll screw yourself up and be right back in there. A daily round the block walk is more like it, but not more then that until released by your Doctor.

 

[Rush20]

Congratulations on a successful surgery. However I will chime in with "Patience Young Jedi!"

Although I was never a marathon runner, I have always been very active and engaged in multiple sports; baseball/softball, biking, running, golf and weight lifting. Similar to you, my cardiologist felt that my active lifestyle and consistant exercise masked my symptoms. My body simply didn't know that the extra stress of the failing valve was not natural. I had AVR with a St. Jude Mechanical last August and was asking similar questions 10 days post operation.

My only advise is that your body went through a very major event that only time will heal. Your sternum, chest and upper body especially needs some TLC over the next six months. Including my 12 week rehab, I usually stuck to walking. 4 months post operation I began lifting weights again very slowly. It's now been 10 months since my surgery and there are still days I feel I've overdone it. Combine that with the various meds you will be on throughout the first year of your recovery and your body is experiencing a lot of change.

Regarding your question on sleeping. I was very frustrated sleeping the first month after surgery because I could not lie on my side (which is my natural and most favorite position to sleep.) I slept in the reclyner chair the first week and then eventually moved into the side sleeping position within 4 weeks with the help of about 3-4 pillows. My first few times I woke up pretty sore, however that's what the pain killers were for.

 

[stormrev]

Runners and exercise

Runners and exercise

Hi and let me add my welcome. I can identify with some of your eagerness to get back to exercise ASAP. As a runner of 25+ years (and about 30 marathons) I struggled to come to terms with the enforced inactivity that recovery seemed to be. However the good Lord must have known of my penchant for pushing too hard and I ended up with a leg problem that prevented even walking for the first six weeks! Now, nearly four months after AVR I can walk freely, had my first swim last week but still am not convinced I need to run just yet... maybe another week or two and a gentle jog will be on the cards.

All the best with your recover - relax and enjoy the privilege of recuperation!

Kind regards

Grant

 

[Harpoon]

Talk to your surgeon about what KINDS of activities you should be doing during your recovery.


A lesiurely walk once or twice a day for the first two weeks is ideal, don't walk too far or too long and, if you can, carry a cell phone with you just in case you need help getting back home for one reason or another (better to have it and never use it than to need it and not have it.)

There are a variety of things you shouldn't be doing for at least a month or more after surgery including driving, lifting, anything that involves rotating your torso or bendign over a lot. It can take upwards of a year for the breast boen (sternum) to completely heal. It takes at LEAST 6-8 weeks for it to mend to the point where a mild impact isn't going to send it shattering into two halves again so bear in mind, even "LIGHT" jogging may have an impact on how long it takes for your chest to heal up. Heavy breathing would be the same way.

Walk, but not too far for too long. No running for a while just yet. NO weightlifting or high impact type exercise.

If it's at all possible, you should try and get yourself into a good cardiac rehab program. They're great because they'll monitor your stats and let you do a variety of exercises that are best for recovering hearts.

I loved being on a treadmill and a rowing machine for the summer I was in rehab. Great stuff.


Don't get too excited about going back to your old pace just yet, you really do need time to heal, even if you don't feel like it.

 

[Marty]

Ready for rehab

Ready for rehab

I was 73 when I had OHS with mitral valve replacement. I was not ready for rehab until eight weeks had passed . then I had eight more weeks of hospital rehab with nurses with stethoscopes closely monitoring. Finally told to go it on my own ,the cardiologist prescribed 45 minutes treadmill three times a week with heart rate over 120 for 20 minutes at my own fitness center.. I'd say it took about six months to get back in shape. Younger folks might do it faster but as the others have said, don't rush.

 

[M&M]

No running for 3 mos !!!

No running for 3 mos !!!

Hi GMHART, I just read your post and as a runner I can sympathize with your desire to run - but I also see where you had surgery 10 days prior to walking 7 miles !!

I just saw my surgeon on Monday and he knows I run - I run alot - 35 road races last year - 6 half marathons and that doesn't include my training. While I agree being physically fit - 7 miles even at 2.5 mph would not effect you the same as it would someone who is not a runner. But even taking your excellent physical condition - 7 miles is alot no matter what the pace. I know because I also noticed in the beginning the more I "walked" the more my sternum hurt me in night in bed. I found there to be a strong correlation -due to the mileage I was putting in. I was walking 3 - 5 miles after my 4th to 5th week post op.

I know you want to get out there - and RUN - but face it what you do now can effect the long term outcome of your running. Years down the road. I know I shouldn't say this - but - I think a light jog - 8 weeks post op is pushing it and may or may not hurt your sternum. Remember this 'all' about a bone healing - this is not about running.

Sorry, to be such a bearer of bad news - but - from one runner to another - go slow and don't worry - the weeks will fly by and you'll be running safely soon enough. Get your strength and work slowly on regaining your stamina. I plan on jogging this year and run a few races - but mostly it will be a 'rebuilding' year - next year I hope to get back to really 'racing'. My surgeon thought that was a smart move. I also have an ICD and I've heard if you go out to fast - to soon - you can cause more 'electrical' problems down the road. I have enough electrical problems and they're not FUN - so I would avoid causing more problems in the long term. Once the tissue starts to heal - its a different story. You don't want to end up with an ICD and then you have to deal with "programs" in order to run and thats not fun at all. Never mind the fact - that these machines can't be programmed by just anyone.. Our electrical system is very intricate and sensitive. The only thing I can compare it to is like when you go out to FAST in a race - and you lose all your strength 3/4 of the way out and you have no stamina - I think that's the best way to describe doing to much to fast..

On my fun days - I like to go to the ocean - especially when the weather is nice - I walk 3 -4 miles - then sit on the beach and get a nice 'tan'.. I've taken up boogie boarding on the very small waves - surgeon said - swimming and upper body work is good - provided you start out slow.

MOTRIN does wonders - I had that motrin bottle not more than 10 feet away from me 24 hours a day. I took it religiously every 6 hours for the first several weeks.

I just took the last 3 days off from walking - due to 'busy schedule' and then I walked 3.5 miles today - I had no muscle pain after my walk.

Even when I was racing - it was recommended you take days off and rest your muscles. If I did it then - it surely makes sense to do it now..

I can't emphasize this enough - its not about running - its about your bone healing and my husband told me if I go running to quickly I could snap my breast bone and I would end up with one **** UP and one **** DOWN !! That was enough for me to say - No I think I'll wait. Running is FUN - and I don't want to do more 'harm' than good - but occassionally I do a very light fast walk.. It feels good to get a good sweat in once a week. BTW, surgeon also said - as a patient with a mechanical mital valve - I will dehydrate faster than normal - so drink lots of water. Next Tuesday will be 6 weeks since my surgery - so only another 6 weeks to go !! It has just flown by. I'm feeling great and my stamina is coming back more and more every day - but its a long process - it doesn't happen overnight..

Take Care
Runner
(Marilyn, Dick and Judy)

 

[Granbonny]

Marilyn

Marilyn

How is the Motrin affecting your INR? I was told to ONLY take tylenol with coumadin. I do, several times a week but INR is always in range. Bonnie

 

[M&M]

Motrin Response to Bonnie

Motrin Response to Bonnie

Hi Bonnie, The hospital was the one that started me on Motrin - 4 times a day. Even so my INR was very low for several weeks after my surgery and like I indicated I was on Motrin all the time. I think they say Motrin should have helped bring my numbers up. But even taking 3 motrins - every 6 hours did not raise it enough. I didn't eat any green veggies. I got alittle angry when I was home for two weeks and my INR went from 2.0 to 1.8 to 1.6 and then they wanted me to inject myself with Lovenox - I hate needles - but I especially hate needles in the stomach. I listened to the nurse and she explained how important it was for me to get my numbers up - so I agreed to try to give myself shots - I got to the pharmacy and brought home the needles - only to look at how BIG the needle was and then I said: NO WAY - she told me it was a tiny needle. This thing is huge - almost like the needle I got many years ago in my stomach that caused a great deal of pain. I said: I'm not doing this - NO WAY - you want to thin my blood - you'll have to increase my coumadin doseage - now if you have to - I'll have to go in the hospital and get the IV heparin drip. I told my surgeon - I can't give myself shots - he said - don't worry - we can wait a couple more days and see if it goes up - well two days later it was up 2.5 !! Then it went up to 3.0 then 3.5 and last week I was 6.5 !!! But I wasn't taking any motrin last week - as I have hardly any pains left. But I did have a couple glasses of wine - so I think now - maybe one glass a day is more than enough. They stopped my coumadin for 2 days and I went back down to 1.7 !!! So now they say - I need to get it back up - so I went back up to two glasses of wine a day..

I don't think the motrin is a problem - but I'm not so sure the wine isn't a problem - its only one or two glasses - unless wine has a big effect on my "system". I guess everyone is different and what might effect me - may not effect you. I know I'm pretty tipsy with two glasses of wine !!! But with my heart disease my doctors have recommended I drink one to two glasses a day - and several cardiologists over many years have told me this. I never did do it - until - about two years ago I got 6 shocks from my ICD in two days and my EP doc was on vacation. Now that was upsetting.. So I been off my heart meds and I decided it would be best if I went back on my meds - beta blocker and mexiletine (anti-arrhythmia) and then I had a glass of wine to soothe my nerves each day and I got no shocks. I even managed to get back out after being on my meds for 3 days and I took second place in a cross country race for my age group !!! So my EP comes back from vacation and I have to go in and get my ICD interrogated - Yes, I had 6 shocks - but they were not for v-fib - they were shocks from sinus tachy - or whatever - anyways it was a benign tachy - these ICD's work on heart rate "numbers" and not types of tachys. So it shocked me because I had gone over my program rates. So I got a new program and off I went - running more races.. I haven't gotten shocked since. Its been almost two years. and lots and lots more races.. Shocks from an ICD - hurt - but they cause a great deal of anxiety afterwards - moreso than the pain. You can't stop but thinking your going to get more shocks. I think going back to running made me scared as well - but in the long run - gave me more confidence as evertime I ran and didn't get shocked - I realized it was not the running that caused the shocks - but the high number in my heart rate - having a higher program rate - is what prevents me from getting more shocks. V-fib rates are usually higher than 185 or so - I believe v-fib usually runs around 250 rates. But I could be wrong. I'm not a doctor. I had been set at the rate of 165 and that's not very high. So I now have the 185 rate and like I said I've had no shocks. I think running uphills creates alot higher heart rates than walking or running on the flat courses.

Sorry about the long story - but I don't think the Motrin really made much of an effect on my INR - even 3 pills - 4 times a day.. My INR was low.. But that's me !!

See Ya
Runner
Marilyn, Dick and Judy !!!

 

[Granbonny]

Marilyn

Marilyn

You are still fairly new-post-op..Coumadin will probably even out soon. If I were you, I would keep a diary everyday for a week. Wine, motrin, exercise, ect.,,and the next time..see where your INR falls. High or low?.....We old time coumadin takers know to tweek our doseage to raise or lower it. I missed a dose at Dad's last week. Just tweeked a little off one pill for a few days.Along with regular 5 mg. per day. Never bothered to take my INR until 4 days later..where it was 2.5..... Bonnie

 

[M&M]

Thanks Bonnie

Thanks Bonnie

Hi, thanks so much for sharing your experience with this medication. Its really all new to me. I don't eat my salads anymore - I've really cut out my 'carbos' - not purposely - just noticed lately I don't eat them like I use to - I've lost 10 pounds !!! I never could figure out why I couldn't lose weight before - but I'm losing about 2 pounds a week and although I don't eat as 'much' per portion - I eat more often and I'm losing !!! I use to eat 'fiber one' every morning for breakfast and salad everyday for lunch, then I was starved at supper. But, I never could lose weight. I couldn't figure it out - maybe I wasn't eating 'enough' - I know you have to eat more if you workout alot. Last summer I was running a huge amount of miles every week and I think I actually gained. I think I was 'holding' fluids alittle before my surgery. I always felt bloaty - even though my ankles didn't show it. I don't feel bloaty anymore. My husband thinks everything is just running more efficient and my metabolism is working right now. I don't know - but Bonnie I appreciate all your input - this up, down - yoyo medication effect is crazy - first of all they were checking me twice a week - which barely gave my system time to 'adjust' and then they would change it.. I knew when they kept me at the old doseage - and I had gone from 2.5 to 3.5 - in 3 days - and then they kept me at the same doesage, I was likely to go to high. But I let it go. What I did do - when it went to 6.5 - which was really wrong - I drank a small amount of green tea.. My previous coumadin lady - told me green tea will bring down a high INR. Since I was at 6.5 - I thought - goodness I should probably get this down. I drank like half a cup of tea - so that may have brought it way down to the 1.7 INR.. Just half a cup !!! I don't know. But it sure is a "live" and "learn" med. I thought 'symptom wise" when I got my high INR readings I would get these little headaches everytime.. I also felt kind of 'spacey' and my eyesight wasn't quite the same. Kind of blurry - but that's only been a few times when my INR I was to high - I'm very in atuned to my body - so I noticed the difference and that just happened to coincide with my high readings. I'm going to watch this more closely and maybe I can tell when I'm to high. I don't know - I would like to get my own home testing kit - but my insurance won't pay - I'm hoping perhaps later when they realize its probably cheaper in the long run for me to do it - than to keep paying this other place to draw my blood. I hope so. I'm going to ask my cardiologist to help me to get one from my insurance. Perhaps he can help me. It will be nice to do it at home and not run to the 'nurse's office' at my local clinic.. Although that is better than driving the 1.5 hours - one way - to my hospital to their coumadin clinic to get blood drawn. I still get my doseage changes from my hospital - but I don't have to drive as far to get my blood drawn. I went to the 'local clinic' last week for my 'first' blood drawn and they want to handle my doseages - but I don't think I want them to do that - I feel more comfortable with either my coumadin clinic or my Internal Medicine doing my doseage changes. Although my cardiologist has suggested he does it - which he mentioned before my surgery - but I haven't seen him since my surgery - I will see him for the first time next Wednesday - my surgeon has released me - as all my post surgical tests came out 'great' so I'll ask my cardiologist 'who' he wants to be in charge of my doseage changes.. I am really happy about not having to do all that driving - it would be too hard once I get back to full time working. I'm so lucky - that "coumadin adjustments" have been my 'biggest' problem through all this !!! I could never complain - I had such a fantastic surgical and electrical team.. I feel very, very lucky and I'm really pleased with all my medical care.

Once again - I talk to much - thanks for you help Bonnie.

Best Wishes
Runner
Marilyn, Dick and Judy

 

[Granbonny]

Marilyn

Marilyn

The reason you are losing weigh is that your body is eating up calories healing. I heard that it eats 5,000 calories a day to heal. I, too lost 15 lbs the first 3 months but gained that and MORE back....Eat what you want everyday..may it be a green salad, wine what ever....JUST don't go overboard like cabbage, ect.......Just tell your Cardio that it is a hardship on you with your job..to make it to clinic before they close. Get in touch with Lance at QAS..They do all the paperwork for you. I had mine in less than a month..They will fight with your Insurance carrier to help you get one......I, too, had several draws at local mountain clinic. I hated it......I am a very lucky coumadin taker....Mine has been between 2.5-3-5 for over 2 years...I have missed a few (once for oral surgery) and finding just tweeking a tad will raise it back into range. I think Al says 10% a week..Like I take. 35 mg. a week..I would want to take a little more of a 5 mg pill.along with my regular doseage to get back into range.NEVER test often..Wait at least 4-5 days for your true test to be back.My clinical nurse wants me to call her every 4 weeks..but I test between 3-4 weeks.NEVER had my dosage changed..Also V-8 juice helps to bring your high INR down.. I drink beer..sometimes a Margarita out..Nothing bothers it.. Just be Consistant. It will even out soon and you will start gaining weight again Bonnie

 

[M&M]

Thanks Bonnie

Thanks Bonnie

Hi Bonnie, I just e-mailed Lance and I can't thank you enough for the 'tip' on how to do all this. There is so much to learn.. Your suggestion on how to go about getting help is greatly appreciated..

Best Wishes
Runner
Marilyn, Dick and Judy

 

[tommy]

Hello Hartstoper and welcome to the VR.com forum.

Mary was refering to me (the vacationer). I spent the last week on the coast of NC visiting with family and body surfing.

A month ago I ran the Andy Payne Marathon in Ok City (different from the Ok City Memorial). It was hot, humid, and windy. Grueling but very satisfying. I'll do the Dallas White Rock in December. I took a few weeks off from running and began training again while on vacation.

It sounds like you are doing real well. I believe that your high level of fitness is serving you well by speeding along your recovery.

However, I'm in agreement with others, slow down. Don't even think about paces except to be sure to keep them way down.

Sorry to hear about sleeping issues. Try the recliner.

Take it easy. Keep in touch.

 

[tommy]

Dave,

The valve popping story is attributed to Arnold Swartzeneger. Urban legend perhaps.

Small increments. One goal at a time. That's the ticket.

 

[MarkU]

Let's see, addressing several issues in no particular order:

- I went back to the gym about three months post op, but it took me eight months to feel 100% healed.

- Walking after surgery was a major deal. The first day it was to the end of the driveway and back, the next day to the next house and back, and so on. Learned to take naps afterwards.

- Did my first triathlon three years after my AVR. I really enjoy the cross training aspects of doing a different workout everyday. Also have come to accept the fact that the aerobic running, biking and swimming are much better for me than the weight lifting I did for years. So much so that I recently cancelled my gym membership.

- I think the cross training also helps by letting my 51 year old joints recover better. When I would try to run everyday the pounding would really bother my back and knees.

- I have a couple of glasses of red wine 3- 4 nights per week with dinner.
Don't know if there is any correlation, but my INR has been consistently in range for years.

MarkU

 

[gmhart]

Ok folks I got your message. Thanks for some good advice. However I went back to my cardiologist today (3 weeks post op). He knows me very well. I've been seeing him for 5 years. He also knows about my training and fitness level before the operation. I told him that yesterday I had walked 5 miles and road my bike 20 miles. He smiled and shook his head. I asked him if I could start running, he said that would be fine as long as I did not set any land speed records (like I could with this gash down the front of my chest). Anyway my INR was right where it was supposed to be at 2.5. By the way what does INR stand for? I'm looking forward to getting back in the running mode. It's therapy for me and I'm addicted to the endorphins. Good luck Hosacktom on your marathon training maybe I'll see at a marathon one of these days. Sorry about my ramblin. God Bless you all.

 

[M&M]

Good News

Good News

Hi GMHART, glad to hear your checkup went so well with your.
Good Luck and Take Care
Runner