Question, primarily for post-op runners

[kodi]

Hi,
I know there are a few of you out there and I'm curious about how and when you started back to running after your surgery. Short history here. I'm 68+ and New Years Day will be my 28th year of running. I'm a veteran of 50 marathons plus other endurance events. My card said I could get back to my normal exercise routines in six weeks. Right now I'm three weeks out. I've been walking 2 or 3 times a day. Starting yesterday, I'm now up to 3 to 3.5 miles a day and decided to only do it two times a day for the next several days then up the distance a little more. Right now I walk at a leisurely pace and not pushing the HR. I just checked and found my average HR is in the low to mid nineties, which is where is was when I stopped running and started to walk six weeks before surgery. However, my pace is about one minute slower per mile. Not that any of that is really all that important right now.

My real question is did you do walk/runs or just started to run and continued doing so until you were completely tired then walked? How often did you run and what kind of distances were you doing?

Another question is what method do you use for calculating MAX HR. For years I have used 205 - 1/2 age. This yields a higher max than the normal 220 - age, and works better for conditioned athletes.

After reading so many of the posts here I'm surprised to find my resting HR is still fairly low. For 20 years or more it has been 40. Right now it seems to be about 48 or 49.

I guess I'll quit rambling for now and would appreciate it if anyone can or will answer some or most of my questions and any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks
Mel

 

[PJmomrunner]

Wow, Kodi! I can't answer your questions because I'm in the waiting room, but I wanted to tell you that you are my new hero. It's great that you've been so dedicated for so long and accomplished 50 marathons. Wow! That's quite an accomplishment!

 

[SumoRunner]

I had my aortic valve replaced back in 1991 at age 43, so it's been a long time. I was a regular runner prior to the surgery going back to about 1978 but I never did any marathons. My training was consistently about 1000 miles per year.

I waited the requisit 6 weeks before trying to run again. The first time out I could not even make it 100 yards because one lung was collapsed during the surgery and I didn't have full capacity for months afterward. It took about another 6 weeks to work up to a full mile and maybe 3 more mos. to get into a 3 mile a day habit again.

By one year from the surgery I was back to "normal" mileage, meaning max long runs of about 10 miles. I have run about another 15,000 miles in the 15 years since. While I never had the urge to run marathons, my favorite race was the Schenectady, NY Stockade-athon 15Km which I have run 22 times now, 11 before the replacement and 11 since.

I'm just slower now is all, but that was going to happen with age anyway. What I changed was the intensity of both training and racing. The mileage has remained about the same.

 

[PJmomrunner]

Yet another hero! Thanks for the "before and after" aspect of your history, Sumo. It's reassuring and inspiring.

 

[tommy]

Wow, your recovery is just short of miraculous. Unfortunately, there is little data, but I'm sure that others will weigh in. We'd appreciate it if you would continue to add your post op experience as it develops.

3 miles per day at 3 weeks is outstanding. When your cardio said normal routines in about 6 weeks, did he know what "normal" means to you?

My history doesn't help you much because i was a couch potato and didn't start running until age 49 - 2.5 years after surgery.

We look forward to your continued successful recovery.

Sumo, great to hear from you. 15,000 miles. How many pairs of shoes have you gone through?

For max heart rate, I use the Karvonen method. For me the max rate is the same answer as 220 - age. But Karvonen uses a different calculation for the zones that is higher than the common method. Here's a calculator. http://www.briancalkins.com/HeartRate.htm

 

[tommy]

This calculator appears to be more true to the Karvonen max rate calculation.
http://www.fitzroy-bramble.com/fitness/id18.html

 

[SumoRunner]

> 15,000 miles. How many pairs of shoes have you gone through?

I get about 500 miles per pair, that's two pairs a year, ~$180 for 1000 miles is 18 cents a mile, much cheaper than running your car. A few people can get more miles on a shoe than that but 500 is fairly typical.

They're still good to wear around the house or to mow the lawn after 500 but they're not good for running once their innards have been crushed. Of course, as the screen name implies I'm a more of a crusher than most.

 

[kodi]

Thanks guys/gals for your input. Years ago I used the Karvonen formula but have changed. It allowed me to train at a higher max and the different percentages also came in higher. My running improved once I changed formulas. I now use 205 - .50xage for max. For me that is 171 Max where as the other is 152. When I calcaulate my different percentages I subtract my resting (40) from the max, do my percent calc then add back the rhr. Something like this 171-40 = 131. 80% = 105, so my 80% pace would be 145. However, when I get back into running in a few weeks I know that I'll have to use the formulas that yield the lower numbers until I get back to normal.
I hope that all makes sense.

SumoRunner, I wish I could get that many miles out of a pair of shoes. My norm is about 300-350, if I push it. I'm an overpronator and wear orthotics. I usually have two or three pair that I change off on each run.

Tommy to answer your questions:
Wow, your recovery is just short of miraculous. Unfortunately, there is little data, but I'm sure that others will weigh in. We'd appreciate it if you would continue to add your post op experience as it develops.

I wouldn't call it miraculous. I just happen to be very stubborn and persistant. I promised my kids (2 adults) and sisters and my best friend that I would not push beyond any limits and I definitely would not even try to run until six weeks. If I seem to be having a bad day, I walk slower on only one time instead of two.

3 miles per day at 3 weeks is outstanding. When your cardio said normal routines in about 6 weeks, did he know what "normal" means to you?
It's usually two times at 3 miles each. My card pretty much knows what I do and my PCP also does. If it weren't for my PCP, I'd probably be dead because he was the first of any doc that I ever had that even detected any kind of major problem, other than my lifetime murmur.

pjmomrunner: in response to your comments...I love it.
I wanted to tell you that you are my new hero. It's great that you've been so dedicated for so long and accomplished 50 marathons. Wow! That's quite an accomplishment!
When someone tells me I'm their hero or a real inspiration to them, I find it very humbling. I started running because I was overweight (200 pounds), a smoker, had a family history of heart problems (dad died at 69, brother at 49 and uncles also fairly young), I had two teenage kids and decided I wanted to see them grow up and see some grandkids (now have 5). I started running and the first several times out I couldn't run a mile without stopping. I just kept at it and found I was fairly good. I never knew I was competitive until I started running races and placing in my age division at local events. I got into triathlons (I'm a lousy swimmer) and never owned my own bike until I was 43. I did one IRONMAN when I was 49 and a lot of shorter events. I still love the marathon, but the half is my favorite race distance.

For me the best thing that comes from this surgery is that I'll probably live longer and still be allowed to do marathons again, something that was real tough for me to give up. Maybe I'll be able to qualify for Boston again.

Now that you're all bored with me I'll sign off.
Mel

 

[SumoRunner]

Here's a lark. Look into http://storm.cadcam.iupui.edu/drs/drs.html

I'm a charter member of an email list called the Dead Runners Society. It was named that about 15 years ago after the movie Dead Poets Society which if you know the premise of the movie is somewhat indicative of the intent of the DRS list. I always thought it was quite appropriate for me since I had already been dead for a short while unlike the rest of them.

 

[mntbiker]

Hi Kodi,
I can't specifically address the running (just starting up again and having a hard time due to shin splints) but as far as the heart rate goes - my surgeon knew what my chosen activity is and gave the go ahead to resume at 3 weeks. I started riding the trainer since it was easier to control my HR. I found that I was only able to maintain a HR in the low 130's at first and that was a struggle, as the months have passed I have slowly worked my way back up, I can now maintain 150's without much problem (you know what I mean). I still try to keep the HR below 160 but I have run it as high as 174 recently without much problem (aside from burning out faster).

When I started I would push as long as I could at a HR I felt I could maintain for at least 30 minutes then when I couldn't keep it up any longer I would drop about 10 BPM and continue for the balance of the workout. I never worried about my max HR since coming off OHS I believed it was irrelevant and like the surgeon said I would know if I pushed too hard.

I am impressed that your HR came back down so fast. I am only now back into the upper 40's. Of course the big change is my HR doesn't go up as quickly as it did. I just did a short walk yesterday up a hill that would normally raise my HR and it only went up to 78.

 

[tprice54]

Drs

Drs

I have long been a member of a sub group of the Dead Runners Society, Disney-Deads, for those who run the Disney World half or full marathons (or both!). I was all set to do NYC this year (first time), but alas, was given the no go by my cardio, as I now have symtoms for the first time...can surgery be far behind?

I can't wait to get through this and chart my post surgery progress....

 

[kodi]

Mtmbiker
Thanks for your feedback. I would guess that you are kind of like me at being a little aggressive and/or impatient. I can see me trying to do what you did and most likely I will, only time will tell. Not that I'm rushing life, but I can hardly wait for the next three weeks to go by.

trpice54, my guess surgery is coming soon. After my doc told me no more marathons, I was a little stupid and stubborn and did three more, the only difference I'd run five miles then walk 5 minutes. I had qualified for Boston and was determined to run it. I also wanted to end my marathon career on and easy number to remember so went for 50. The docs main concern was that my BP would bottom out and there would be no comeback...period! I just took the risk. I think you're smart at listening to your doc. It's now interesting for me to see how I'm improving so far. I use a Garmin 301 GPS and it's great for keeping track of all the information.

 

[msiwik]

Info on Return to Running

Info on Return to Running

Kodi:

If you search back, you will find some detailed posts that I put up about returning to running. In a nutshell:

a) The walking is a good thing and I did what you are doing, averaging 3 miles a day for the first six weeks after surgery.

b) I didn't start running again until six weeks after surgery, primarily to let the sternum heal.

c) I kept the running light and easy for the first 12 months after surgery, generally keeping the heart rate in the 60 to 75% max. heart rate. Over this time period, I progressed from a 12 minute mile to a 9 to 10 minute mile.

When I hit the one year mark and after talking with my cardiologist, I resumed regular training. My easy runs are now 10 minutes. Tempo runs are at an 8 minute pace and intervals in the 7:00's. I will be updating my training blog here around thanksgiving as I intend to use the winter to do hard tempo runs (once a week) at 80% to 85% max. heart rate. The goal is to get faster and stronger.

Keep us posted and email if you would like to talk offline. Regards, Mark