Protecting Tissue Valves

[neo]

Hi everyone. I had my AV replaced 3 months ago with a 3rd gen Tissue Valve. So far, everything is excellent and my 3rd month echo results showed all measurements and function to be normal. Praise God, I am very thankful! My concern now is to protect my valve as long as possible from calcification. From what I have read, there appears to be at least 4 different supplements which could have a big impact on calcification (both good and bad). Those supplements being Vitamin D, Vitamin K, Magnesium, and Aspirin. I would be most interested if anyone who has researched this could share what they know. My 4 biggest questions are:

I read that too much Vitamin D can lead to an excess amount of calcium in the blood which could find its way into the tissues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcification
1. Why would someone take a Vitamin D supplement when they have a tissue valve?

I read that coronary calcification was found to be higher in those taking Aspirin and Statins.
http://www.modernmedicine.com/moder...onary-calcification-linked-greater-statin-asp
http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1138796&issueno=14
2. Why would someone take a daily Aspirin if they have a tissue valve and no other reason to take it?

I think I understand the reasoning of taking a daily Vitamin K supplement, to steer Calcium away from the tissues and into the bones.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00785109
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01002157
3. Is there any negative to taking a Vitamin K supplement?

Lastly, for those with tissue valves, it appears that Magnesium softens Calcium and may help keep it from binding to tissue valves. I take 125mg of Magnesium Taurate every day. The key to Magnesium is choosing one that has a good delivery system, to be absorbed. Many Magnesium supplements simply do not get absorbed and are more used for constipation, etc. I find that the Magnesium Taurate is a good one.
http://www.amazon.com/Cardiovascula...=1376168335&sr=8-1&keywords=magnesium+taurate
4. Anyone else use Magnesium Taurate?


Thanks for any and all thoughts!

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi Neo,

Posting here from the other thread about vitamin K2:

"Too much vitamin D can lead to an excess amount of calcium in the blood etc" -

- that "too much" vitamin D would have to lead to an overhigh level of serum D - 25(OH)D - something in excess of a level of 200 ng/dL (500 nmol/L) and that would mean a person taking something like in excess of 10,000 IU vitamin D per day for very many, many months. It is very hard to get toxic levels of D which is what would lead to "an excess amount of calcium in the blood". A more 'normal' amount of vitamin D would be between 2,000 and 5,000 IU per day and that would not give an excess of serum D. It is always best to get your serum level of D checked, but the fact is that most people are deficient in vitamin D. Vitamin D is highly protective for the heart and vascular system.

Vitamin K - you mean vitamin K2, not vitamin K which means vitamin K1. K2 works in synergy with both vitamin D and vitamin A to keep calcium where it belongs which is in the bones.

This book by Dr Kate Rheaume-Bleue, 'Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox' http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Cal...alcium+paradox is very good but unfortunately has just gone out of print and the price has skyrocketed.

In the absence of a copy of the book, this interview with Dr Mercola and Dr Rhaume-Bleue is well worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbd8FqnVT4c

I've been taking 200 mcg of vitamin K2 as MK-7 for the past two years and my aortic stenosis due to my bicuspid aortic valve has remained stable ! It had been increasing rapidly prior to this. My cardiologist is very surprised. I also take 20,000 of vitamin D3 once a week which works out at 2,800 IU D3 per day. I do not take any calcium supplements but get calcium from my diet.

From what I've read about vitamin K2, there is no known toxic level of it so no "negative" to taking it

I'm watching the research which is coming out of Maastricht University and the human trial they are doing giving vitamin K2 to reduce coronary calcification - that's close enough to the calcification in aortic stenosis for me. The study from Aachen University is using vitamin K1, that's because in Germany they are only allowed to do trials using prescribed vitamins and only K1 is prescribed (babies born with a certain deficiency of K1), K2 is a supplement so they're not allowed to do trials on it. I'm not sure why they're doing this trial at all because K1 doesn't have anything to do with calcium.

 

[neo]

Thanks Paleo. So it does appear that getting too much Vitamin D would be hard to do. However, why risk it at all? What are the "heart health" benefits of taking Vitamin D? How does taking Vitamin D prevent calcification?

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi Neo - sorry to not get back to you before, it's the time difference between the US and UK ! Anyway, to answer your question, just google vitamin D heart and you'll get back tons of hits. I'm surprised you haven't heard of the conection before, it's been known for a few years now. There's books and books on vitamin D's protective role in not only bone health but also heart health, cancer, multiple sclerosis and more. This website has several lectures by doctors about the benefits of vitamin D: http://www.grassrootshealth.net/ as does the Vitamin D Council's website: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/ The list is endless Neo when you start looking ! Also look on Pubmed.

To show you how mainstream vitamin D and health is these days, I'm prescribed vitamin D by one of my consultants, not for my osteoporosis but for my general health, including heart for the past six years, I'm also prescribed Omega-3's by my cardiologist.

Just found this which is particularly interesting: http://blog.trackyourplaque.com/2011/02/the-formula-for-aortic-valve-disease.html

But don't just take high doses of D without getting your blood levels of vitamin D (25(OH)D test) done, your GP can do it, it's a regular blood test - I get mine done six monthly with all my other regular tests - if your levels of D are optimal then there's no need to supplement with D !

 

[Luana]

1. Why would someone take a Vitamin D supplement when they have a tissue valve?

Vitamin D deficiency is fairly common, and it's better to be in normal range than deficient. If I had a tissue valve and were deficient in vitamin D, I would surely take it.

 

[neo]

Protecting Tissue Valves

I understand that Vitamin D has lots of health benefits. It helps naturally with mood, bones, circulation, and all kinds of other things. What concerns me is how Vitamin D works. Its primary role is to help the body absorb Calcium. Once the Calcium is absorbed, your body can use it for all kinds of beneficial things, but still absorbs more Calcium. Using Vitamin K2 can apparently help with steering the absorbed Calcium to the appropriate places, but by taking a Vitamin D supplement, we are still absorbing more Calcium than we would naturally.

Too much Vitamin D can cause too much Calcium to build up in the blood and could make your blood toxic. So if I have a tissue valve that I want to prevent being calcified at all costs, why would I want to take in any more Calcium then I absolutely need? Why would I supplement Vitamin D unless my blood levels were extremely low, and I mean dangerously low? It doesn't seem to be worth the risk to me. Am I thinking about this the wrong way??

Thanks!

 

[ski girl]

Neo-

It takes some effort to get Vit D toxicity: "Vitamin D toxicity, where vitamin D can be harmful, usually happens if you take 40,000 IU per day for a couple of months or longer, or take a very large one-time dose."

I'm not a biochemist (others in this forum are) so I can't say whether or not slightly higher then needed doses of vit D cause calcium to go to your blood instead of bones (etc). However I'm a BIG believer in getting your nutrition from real food and not supplements - so if in doubt, don't supplement at all.

And I'm just having a guess here, based on logic and the fact that I got a severely stenosed valve through 40 years of my life before it had to be replaced - but if you exercise regularly and really get your heart pumping, calcium deposits don't get a chance to build up. My surgeon was so impressed with how flexible my native valve was that he took pictures of it! Just an idea anyway.

 

[Paleowoman]

What concerns me is how Vitamin D works. Its primary role is to help the body absorb Calcium

Neo - vitamin D's primary role is not in calcium absorption, it's in dozens of other bodily processes, hence its role in heart health, cancer protection, immune system etc, it's all very complicated chemisty ! Vitamin D's role is also not to help absorb calcium but to regulate calcium absorption. If you have optimal levels of D you will absorb optimal amounts of calcium. It's only if you have too much vitamin D that you could get hypercalcaemia. Too much of anything is bad. Water is essential to life but you can die if you drink too much of the stuff.

You need calcium too (though most people don't need calcium supplements as our diets contain enough calcium), calcium is essential for regulating heart beat and lots of other bodily processes, the body is full of "calcium channels": in the gut, in the pancreas, the heart, everywhere. The blood level of calcium is extremely finely tuned and regulated and if it goes out a bit there are very serious concequences. If the body is not getting enough calcium from the diet you will actually take it from your bones, hence one cause of osteoporosis, as the bones are the body's store house of calcium. Please don't associate calcium just with bone health !

Vitamin D regulates the calcium and if you don't have enough vitamin D to help absorb the calcium all that will happen is your body will take the calcium from your bones ! It's no coincidence that there is an association of coronary calcification with osteoporosis ! You would think in that case there wouldn't be enough calcium for the bones so why would it be deposited in the arteries ? The short annswer is you need vitamin D to regulate the calcium, both absorb it and regulate where it goes. Vitamin K2 works in synergy with vitamin D, they're not separate, you need both.

It's much more complicated that you think so I encourage you to read up about it thoroughly before you make your mind up that vitamin D is somehow bad ! I'm not a scientist so I can't explain it properly, but vitamin D is very, very good

 

[neo]

Protecting Tissue Valves

Thanks Ski and Paleogirl... My Vit D was low at one point, and I was taking one 50,000iu capsule per month. I stopped taking it after surgery for fear it could possibly cause my body to absorb more calcium than it otherwise would. You make a great point that if my calcium is too low, it will be robbed from my bones anyway. I will wait and get a blood test, and aim to be within range. Hopefully I can get enough naturally, otherwise I'll go back to the supplement.

 

[neo]

Protecting Tissue Valves

Do you both take Magnesium? I guess it softens calcium but also great for heart health.

 

[Paleowoman]

Do you both take Magnesium? I guess it softens calcium but also great for heart health.

I started taking magnesium, 100 mg magnesium citrate, just these last couple of months as I was getting muscle cramps due to the hot weather. I've never heard of magnesium "softening" calcium - calcium and magnesium need to be in proportion, hence I do not take much magnesium as I probably get enough from my diet.....but in hot weather with sweating one's needs are greater.

 

[neo]

I started taking magnesium, 100 mg magnesium citrate, just these last couple of months as I was getting muscle cramps due to the hot weather. I've never heard of magnesium "softening" calcium - calcium and magnesium need to be in proportion, hence I do not take much magnesium as I probably get enough from my diet.....but in hot weather with sweating one's needs are greater.

Try the Magnesium-Taurate I shared link above. There's alot of data regarding Magnesium and heart health, and softening of calcium.

I've been watching your video from Dr. Mercola. Very interesting. When it comes to protecting our tissue valves, it does appear that Vitamin K2 is one of the most important supplements we can take.

 

[neo]

Paleo, which Vitamin K2 supplement are you taking?

 

[Paleowoman]

Paleo, which Vitamin K2 supplement are you taking?

Hi Neo - I currently take Life Extension's Super K: http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Super-K-with-Advanced-K2-Complex-90-Softgels/46675 (If you purchase it from iHerb and have never ordered from them before you can get a discount of $10 on your first order by quoting BED356 at the checkout.).

 

[neo]

Thanks Paleogirl, I will check that out!

 

[neo]

I am currently taking a daily aspirin, but really have no reason to. I saw this study about people who took Asprin having a great likelihood of coronary calcifications. I think I'm going to ask my doctor about stopping it.

"The presence of coronary calcification was associated with an independent 3-fold greater likelihood of statin and aspirin usage and more appropriate use of statins during 6-year follow-up within the PACC Project cohort. These findings support the concept that the identification of coronary calcium in a screening population leads to shifts in clinical patient management reflected in the provision of preventive cardiovascular pharmacotherapies."

http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1138796&issueno=14

 

[neo]

I can certainly see the benefit of taking Vitamin K2 if you have a native tissue valve. With regard to an implanted Bovine/Porcine tissue valve, I wonder if K2 treats the implanted tissue as native tissue? It would be terrible if K2 saw the foreign tissue as bone, and by adding K2 to the diet, it started calcifying it even more. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this?? Thanks.

 

[pellicle]

i think its still earlyy days for that studies result analysis

 

[neo]

Pellicle, what study are you referring to?

 

[pellicle]

Pellicle, what study are you referring to?

sorry about that, I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I was thinking of the study linking macular degeneration to aspirin use

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23337937/

I don't know how I got that mixed up. Currently using my phone for all this as my laptop is having a little moment (that is taking days to fix)