Low HR & Magnesium

[Abbanabba]

Well, I've recently learnt an important lesson about taking vitamins without consulting a doctor. I started taking magnesium supplements a week or so ago to help combat achy/twitchy legs which I sometimes get. They really make it hard to sleep and I figured it was much better to take a vitamin to get things back in order than popping pain killers every night (..and this has always been very successful in the past..).

However - I did not realise (until a very timely PM from "ladyofthelake") that magnesium can actually drop your BP & HR!! Since my HR sits around 60-64bpm at the best of times, it's no wonder I was dropping into the low 40's! I stopped taking the magnesium as soon as I found out and even though my HR is still a little on the low side (high 50's to low 60's), the more dramatic drops seem to have subsided.

What bothers me is there is absolutely no indication of this side-effect on the vitamin bottle - which I ALWAYS check for instructions and contraindications. It seems that there's plenty of warnings and information for people with hypertension and high HR, but those of us on the other side of the equation don't seem to rate a mention. Even my BP monitor lists the readings for hypertension, but not what is "low" for a normal person.

Meanwhile, my energy levels have returned to normal ("normal" for me at least - which is still pretty sad), but the achy legs are back, so I kinda feel trapped between a rock and a hard place!

Anyhoo, I saw a post on "natural" remedies and thought it worth mentioning my recent experience.

Cheers all,
Anna : )

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Hi Anna,

Check with your MD on the following:
Quinine sulfate.

Good luck to you!

 

[ladyofthelake]

Glad you're Feeling Better

Glad you're Feeling Better

Anna,

I am so glad to hear we intervened before you went into a need for medical intervention for bradycardia. I am sad to say that most doctors and even nutritionists do not have special knowledge about using supplements as that would require extra classes and a special interest in new developments in nutritional supplementing. My own cardiologist ask me to help supply her with the newer medical study results on Mag and MVPS because she does not have computer time but wants to be as updated as possible on MVPS. I happened to stumble across this because I have had a vested interest in the Magnesium issues with MVPS, Mag deficiency causing dysfunction of the autonomic nerves and arrhythmia and the Mag deficient role in Myxomatous Valve Disease. The muscle twitching that you describe may indeed be a symptom of magnesium deficiency and correlated to the issues you have with ectopic beats but your unfortunate low heart rate issue just seemed too risky to handle the magnesium therapy you may need. I am glad to hear that your HR and energy level has improved some.

Magnesium supplements are known to be a natural tranquilizer so it does look like it could have been slowing you down. They don't list the cautions on the bottle because your brady symptoms are rare - most people that take magnesium would not have to be concerned with such an issue. But they also do not list that one must stop taking Magnesium 2 weeks before recieving a general anesthesia. There are however many many contraindications and interactions with all natural supplementing and yet some of our best healing options may lie within this subject. The absolute worse injustice of the use of natural healing techniques is the clash that happens as a result of combining herbal remedies along with chemical drug therapies! Anna, I will continue to hold an interest in this for you and there are some liquid magnesium formulas that you can control the dose yourself with using a modest amount (and they are much more absorbable). So if you ever get to the bottom of what is causing you such a natural low heart rate (i.e. thyroid anti bodies?? or the RBBB) and raise it to a safety point for magnesium to not be dangerous (i.e. thyroid meds or another cure) then I can help you to find something that wont weight/slow you down like you were having recently. I think we will being seeing more issues with people in the future having magnesium needs as the dysautonomia, arrhythmia and heart valve disease links continue to unfold.

Best Wishes and Blessings,

Lisa

 

[Gemma]

Hi Anna,
I guess in the general population high BP's more of a problem than low BP - maybe that's the (not particularly excusable) reason they didn't mention it on the label.
Have you heard of Restless Leg Syndrome? I read just last week that it's been linked to iron deficiency - try Googling it, there are tons of pages. But if you do decide to try iron supplements, check with your doctor first .
Gemma.

 

[KimC]

Anna,

I can relate to the symptoms you feel when your HR drops. I had to cut back my dose of Cardizem due to the fatigue. I'm now on Lisinopril and feel much better, although it doesn't relieve the chest pain.

Lisa,

I have a friend who was suffering from horrible panic attacks until she started Mag supplements. She recovered. Prior to that, she had tried all the usual Rx to treat the disorder, e.g., anti-depressants, etc.

Thanks for the insightful post. Do you have any opinion on COQ10?

Blessings backatcha,

 

[ladyofthelake]

Coq 10

Coq 10

Kim,

Thanks for the story about your friend. It seems if there is a problem with the nervous system malfunctioning that is contributing to panic symptoms then it is better to go the route of magnesium than it is to use the SSRIs. A big problem of the last couple of years with this is while there is still alot of over prescribing of the SSRIs they are finding that many of them cause a prolonged QT interval on EKG readings. So that is not a good thing to mix with potential autonomic nerve problems. Glad to hear that the Mag helped your friend to that degree.

Oh goodness an opinion request right when I was trying to humble my keyboard!! Yes, Indeed I am trying to develope an opinion on COQ 10 but I am still scratching my head on it. While I believe there have been many controlled studies on COQ and it is now accepted in medical practice to use it for many cardiac issues, I have found my own difficulity with it. I tried to add it to my supplement routine years ago for a few months. I ended up believing I needed to stop it. It seemed to clash with something. With MVP it is common to get left sided heart pain, it is said to be caused from the valve stretching. Well I got lots of that when I used CO Q 10 so I stopped it. I had another friend ask me about it recently and all I can find on interactions while cross refferencing it is that, there are several beta blockers that block the affects of CO Q 10. Of course the one I am on is listed in the interaction list. So I am going to approach it from a different angle. It seems important for all who have been on beta blocker therapy for a substancial time to be able to increase their intake of CO Q 10 because beta blockers may be one of the more benign drugs but they do deplete our natural CO Q supply. I tried it several years ago and I am sure I was not educated enough then to remember to space my supplements a few hours apart from my medication metabolism. I plan to order it in my near future supplement order and try it at least 5 hours after I take my heart meds. My cardiologist is pro COQ but after my experience I am a little nervous about it. Another reason I could have had a problem is I was also on a sodium channel blocker which I am now almost completely detoxed off of. Not alot was known about the anti arrythmic drug and all interactions. So if you don't see me post in a week or so you know the CO Q got me! LOL Kidding! We could try to replenish it from eating more red meat but I am not sure that is sufficent for many with cardiac issues. I had many of the study results that showed a significant COQ 10 loss in cadavers of many cardiac deaths. The other thing that concerns me is most all sources of CO Q come from China. While I think that China may be a beautiful country I am not educated about the sources of it purity. Hope that helped alittle even though it is only a half of an opinion. Best Wishes,

Lisa

 

[Christina L]

This is a very

This is a very

interesting thread to me because when I had my colonoscopy last Monday, my heart rate was dipping down into the 40s after the procedure - the monitor kept beeping! My friend's eyes were popping out as she thought that my heart was going to stop or something.

I take magnesium every day and did hear that it was good for a number of things - especially the heart. However, if that is what is making my heart rate slow, then I will stop taking it or take it less often.

I do need to try to take my pulse more often, but I just "don't want to know" and isn't that stupid?? Whenever I go to the doc my heart rate is in the 70s and 80s.

I think that the thought of my heart rate being so low post colonoscopy has unnerved me a bit this past week, which is also another stressor that has maybe led to this latest bout of PACs.

I would like to know more about the magnesium. Should I take it or not?? I am pretty low energy sometimes and wonder now if it is because of a low heart rate.

Thanks.

Chris

 

[ladyofthelake]

magnesium and your HR

magnesium and your HR

Christina,

I am wondering did you get a sedative for your procedure? I did post that mag should not be used before having surgery. I am not sure that mag is dangerous for you if you don't know your average awake resting pulse. In Anna's case I knew for certain that she had a blood pressure monitor that could give her readings daily and she was consistantly in the low 50 range and dropping. While many docs I am sure get more concerned with a pulse that is too high daily my concern for Anna was that with this happening daily and decreasing on her, would she eventually pass out or a bit worse. Her cardio wasn't answering her quick enough for me!! With what I have found about magnesium I would think it is more benificial for many with cardiac issues than not. I would say it is best to ask your doctor but many doctors do not know much about supplements. It is worth a try to ask. And if you are really worried you can take your pulse often. I know that my heart goes into bradycardia (like down to 47 HR nightly) while sleeping because that is its routine while I have been on an anti arrhythmic drug for a long time. Magnesium has helped me more noticeably with my stubborn hard to manage MVPS symptoms but I think if my heart rate was averaging in the 50's while awake I wouldn't take the mag at least for awhile until I see a steady day pulse of 70. I hope you get it figured out and am curious about what you average HR is. Best Wishes,

Lisa

 

[Abbanabba]

They don't list the cautions on the bottle because your brady symptoms are rare - most people that take magnesium would not have to be concerned with such an issue. But they also do not list that one must stop taking Magnesium 2 weeks before recieving a general anesthesia.

I know low HR is much less common that high HR, but with things so heavily regulated, it still surprises me there are no warnings - especially when you consider that (in Australia, at least) kids can't even take peanut butter sandwiches to school incase another kid has an allergy. I've also never heard about problems with magnesium and anesthesia either - what's that all about..? Again, you've been a font of information and I really appreciate your input and concern.

Have you heard of Restless Leg Syndrome? I read just last week that it's been linked to iron deficiency - try Googling it, there are tons of pages. But if you do decide to try iron supplements, check with your doctor first.

Yes - I've done a lot of investigating into RLS because I've had chronic insomnia all my life and thought this might be contributing. My iron levels have always come back OK, but other than blood tests, my doctors haven't offered me any other course of action. The magnesium has always helped with the twitchiness and I also found magnesium/zinc/B6 (a particular combo offered by one brand) was quite helpful in helping me with my insomnia by reducing the number of times I would wake at night.

I take magnesium every day and did hear that it was good for a number of things - especially the heart. However, if that is what is making my heart rate slow, then I will stop taking it or take it less often.

I would like to know more about the magnesium. Should I take it or not?? I am pretty low energy sometimes and wonder now if it is because of a low heart rate.

I guess it's good for your heart if your HR is high... Perhaps it might help to halve you dosage and see if that makes any difference. This is something I'm considering, but my HR is still fairly low (currently 56bpm), so I'll see the doc first.

Do you take your pulse when you're feeling sapped? It might be a good way to find out if it is your HR affecting your energy. I initially started monitoring mine because I was having problems with my BP, and my monitor also records my HR. Now my BP is back to normal (average 111/67) but I'm still feeling tired because of my HR. Ths seems to have been on an overall decline in the last 8 months (it has gone from an average of 66bpm to 60bpm) and maybe this is why the magnesium is now creating issues.

There's a wealth of info on the net. I "googled" magnesium + HR and found a lot of very interesting stuff.


Kim -
It was very interesting reading about your friend. Amazing a non prescription drug could have such a positive effect.


Gina -
Will definitely check out the Quinine sulfate.


A : )

 

[ladyofthelake]

magnesium

magnesium

Anna,

Since magnesium acts as a natural sedative it can and will increase the affects of sedative medications. In the case of ansethesia it can be extremely dangerous and usually increased danger with having an uninformed ansethesiaologist managing the procedure on a patient that has been taking supplements. There are other supplements that have medical cautions to stop using them 2 weeks before a scheduled procedure i.e vitamin E and Omegas with their blood thinning properties are just a few on the list. Hope your feeling better.

Lisa

 

[gijanet]

Not quite sure if it's the same thing .........

Not quite sure if it's the same thing .........

you're talking about, but I used to get Charlie horses in my legs quite often from working two jobs, road marches, etc., and being on my feet way too much. Doc told me to take potassium and calcium supplements and they did the trick. Still get them on occasion and start the supplement routine again. They sound harmless enough, but you might want to run this past your PCP or cardio (or M'lady ) and give it a shot. Hugs. J.

 

[ladyofthelake]

M'lady ??

M'lady ??

Mistress Janet,

If referring to the ~ lady of the lake ~ She is a ruler and tis nay M'lady. More acceptable shall be - Your Grace and truely, Your Grace doth nay have a potion of thine calcium, potassium yee speak of, for leg cramping. I believe Mistress Anna was speaking for leg twitchiness and sleeplessness so I shall pass the search back to thee with thy healers. Luck be to thee as I bid you Anon!

 

[lynnebhunt]

More info

More info

Christina,

I am wondering did you get a sedative for your procedure? I did post that mag should not be used before having surgery. I am not sure that mag is dangerous for you if you don't know your average awake resting pulse. In Anna's case I knew for certain that she had a blood pressure monitor that could give her readings daily and she was consistantly in the low 50 range and dropping. While many docs I am sure get more concerned with a pulse that is too high daily my concern for Anna was that with this happening daily and decreasing on her, would she eventually pass out or a bit worse. Her cardio wasn't answering her quick enough for me!! With what I have found about magnesium I would think it is more benificial for many with cardiac issues than not. I would say it is best to ask your doctor but many doctors do not know much about supplements. It is worth a try to ask. And if you are really worried you can take your pulse often. I know that my heart goes into bradycardia (like down to 47 HR nightly) while sleeping because that is its routine while I have been on an anti arrhythmic drug for a long time. Magnesium has helped me more noticeably with my stubborn hard to manage S symptoms but I think if my heart rate was averaging in the 50's while awake I wouldn't take the mag at least for awhile until I see a steady day pulse of 70. I hope you get it figured out and am curious about what you average HR is. Best Wishes,

Lisa

Interesting information on magnesium. What is an anti arrhythmic drug? Is this the same thing as a beta blocker?

Lynnebhunt

 

[Abbanabba]

Doc told me to take potassium and calcium supplements and they did the trick...... you might want to run this past your PCP or cardio (or M'lady ) and give it a shot. Hugs. J.

Will do. I would have thought with my daily banana and balanced diet I would be getting sufficient potassium, but maybe not enough(?). I think it's definitely a time for a trip to the GP to see if there's some sort of imbalance or something.

Since I stopped the Mg I've had the horrible achy legs back (..and those "charlie horses", I've woken up in excruciating pain at times from my calf muscles or feet cramping - ow!..) although my HR still seems lower than it should. I thought it was getting back to "normal", but the last few days it's been in the low-mid 50's and was only 50bpm a short while ago.

This is driving me mad!!

A : )

 

[ladyofthelake]

Lynnebhunt + Anna

Lynnebhunt + Anna

Lynne,

An anti arrhythmic drug is used to help control the heart rhythm and yes there are some beta blockers that are considered Class II antiarrhythmics here is a chart that might help to give you some info on cardiac drugs.

http://www.ccpe-cfpc.com/en/drug_lists/c1_drug.pdf


Anna,

Why isn't your cardiologist doing something about your concerns with the low HR?

Lisa

 

[Abbanabba]

Anna,

Why isn't your cardiologist doing something about your concerns with the low HR?

Lisa

I've been holding off sending my letter to her because I managed to track down some test results from 1997, when I was fit and well. I thought it would be good to check those out to see if there's been any significant changes, but they've been taking their precious time sending them because they were archived.

So - I guess in my cardio's defense, she's not yet had the chance to address my concerns. Given that the Holter is only a 24hr recording, it also doesn't reflect the ongoing decline.

I'll be sure to let you know when I do send the letter (..I was assured yesterday that the other results will be sent today..) and what the response is.

Cheers
Anna : )

 

[Randy'38]

Achy legs

Achy legs

Recently my BP has risen into the 150's from previous 130's. My cardiologist put me on Cozaar to bring it down. After 3 days, my legs were aching so badly I could hardly walk, so I stopped taking it. After two days I was back to normal. I waited a week to see if there were any changes in BP and then went on 2.5mg Norvasc per cardiologist's instructions. The ach is gone, but I still feel like my legs are made of rubber when I play tennis. After about 15-20 minutes they seem OK. So those meds definitely have an effect on me. BP is now in the 130-140 range, which it has been for years, even prior to my MIAVR last July. My pulse is 50-55, but always has been due to my extensive athletic activity. I'm scheduled for an Echo next week (the first since my surgery). I'm curious to see what changes, if any, are noted.

Randy

 

[gijanet]

Oh, I know it is.........

Oh, I know it is.........

Will do. I would have thought with my daily banana and balanced diet I would be getting sufficient potassium, but maybe not enough(?). I think it's definitely a time for a trip to the GP to see if there's some sort of imbalance or something.

Since I stopped the Mg I've had the horrible achy legs back (..and those "charlie horses", I've woken up in excruciating pain at times from my calf muscles or feet cramping - ow!..) although my HR still seems lower than it should. I thought it was getting back to "normal", but the last few days it's been in the low-mid 50's and was only 50bpm a short while ago.

This is driving me mad!!

A : )

I hate charlie horses, and I don't have the low heart rate on top of that. I've even gotten them driving down the road - God help those poor souls driving around me! And don't forget the calcium, too, as well as the potassium. I know it won't cure all, but it should at least help some with the charlie horses. HOpe you get some relief soon. Hugs. j.

 

[gijanet]

Don't want to steal Anna's thread here........

Don't want to steal Anna's thread here........

Mistress Janet,

but I would much rather be a Madame than a Mistress. The Madame of the house gets all the money, and the mistress just gets..........well, IT! heehee! Thanks for the laugh..........and the education. Hugs. J.

 

[Christina L]

Lisa,

Lisa,

I saw my cardiologist yesterday and he said that magnesium supplementation shouldn't be causing a low heart rate - he also said not to worry about my low heart rate. However, again, I am not monitoring it every day (at all really - don't want to know - I get obsessed) so I am not sure what it is like most of the time.

Yesterday at the doc's it was 66, but I was keyed up! What would it have been if I were relaxed??

An interesting aside - the cardio nurse said she used to work as a colonoscopy nurse and that low heart rates are normal after scopes because of the vagal response that is to be expected after the manipulation of the body to do the scope. She said a low heart rate after colonoscopy is usually a given. I know the nurses after my colonoscopy did not seem concerned in the least. It was me, the worrier, who left there unable to get that 50- heart rate out of my head!!

So, I am back to the magnesium, because most of us have a low magnesium level and magnesium is good for so many things in the body besides the heart.

Thanks for all your help.

Christina L.