Lovenox theory question

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catwoman

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I'm just dense but why do doctors order patients to stop warfarin and use Lovenox, when Lovenox will also cause bleeding issues?

What's the difference between continuing to take warfarin and jabbing yourself with Lovenox?

I'd like a scientific explanation. Not just that the doctors are trying to CTA and avoid lawsuits. :rolleyes:
 
Good luck on this one. Why can't doctors manage Coumadin patients properly? If you can answer that, you'll have the answer to the Lovenox question.

After my Lovenox experience, I can tell you it causes far more bleeding then Coumadin ever could. Does it make sense? Heck no. In fact, Lovenox has never been approved for bridging use in heart valve patients and that's true to this day.
 
Lovenox has a lower half life than Warfarin. Lovenox = 4.5 hours Warfarin = 2.5 Days.

You use lovenox so there's a smaller window of time without anti-coagulation. If you wanted to have a normal bleed risk with warfarin, you'd need to wait like 1 week after the last day you took it... with lovenox it might be 12-24 hours.

Same goes for heparin, except heparin has an even shorter half life.

Also, there's a drug called protamine which can reverse (at least partially) the anticoagulation effects of lovenox. Not sure if the same applies for heparin.

Lovenox is dosed by your weight and not by INR, so it's a little more convenient than the alternatives.
 
If you wanted to have a normal bleed risk with warfarin, you'd need to wait like 1 week after the last day you took it... with lovenox it might be 12-24 hours.

Just a note, most people will crash in two days without the Warfarin. Yes, there are some really slow metabolizers out there that can take up to a week, but it's not the normal. Also don't forget, Warfarin can be reversed with Vit K or fresh frozen plasma to bring you off in a matter of an hour or two.
 
Just a note, most people will crash in two days without the Warfarin. Yes, there are some really slow metabolizers out there that can take up to a week, but it's not the normal. Also don't forget, Warfarin can be reversed with Vit K or fresh frozen plasma to bring you off in a matter of an hour or two.


Good points! Albeit plasma is not without risks..

I try not to post authoritatively on ACT stuff because of my complete lack of real world experience. I took a chance and dipped my toes in the water on a theory thread though :D
 
Good luck on this one. Why can't doctors manage Coumadin patients properly? If you can answer that, you'll have the answer to the Lovenox question.

After my Lovenox experience, I can tell you it causes far more bleeding then Coumadin ever could. Does it make sense? Heck no. In fact, Lovenox has never been approved for bridging use in heart valve patients and that's true to this day.

That's exactly why they didn't use it on me last week......because of the risk of bleeding in the lungs.
(end of discussion of what happen last week)
 
Lovenox has a lower half life than Warfarin. Lovenox = 4.5 hours Warfarin = 2.5 Days.

You use lovenox so there's a smaller window of time without anti-coagulation. If you wanted to have a normal bleed risk with warfarin, you'd need to wait like 1 week after the last day you took it... with lovenox it might be 12-24 hours.

Same goes for heparin, except heparin has an even shorter half life.

Also, there's a drug called protamine which can reverse (at least partially) the anticoagulation effects of lovenox. Not sure if the same applies for heparin.

Lovenox is dosed by your weight and not by INR, so it's a little more convenient than the alternatives.
Very interesting!
 
So from what I read earlier, you take the last Lovenox dose 12 hours before your procedure. So basically you have no ACT for however long that takes and then they give you another dose of Lovenox when they finish?

Please correct me if that's wrong. It's kind of scary.

Michele
 
So from what I read earlier, you take the last Lovenox dose 12 hours before your procedure. So basically you have no ACT for however long that takes and then they give you another dose of Lovenox when they finish?

Please correct me if that's wrong. It's kind of scary.

Michele

Yes, sort of...

I asked 3 surgeons about their Bridging Protocol and got 3 Different answers.

Some Bridge up to 12 (or 24) hours before surgery, then restart After Surgery (exact timing depends on risk of Bleeding vs. Risk of Stroke).

Some Bridge Before but NOT After (start Coumadin after surgery, knowing that it takes 3-4 days to become fully effective).

Some DO NOT Bridge at all, just stop Coumadin several days before surgery and start Coumadin after surgery.

'AL Capshaw'
 
So from what I read earlier, you take the last Lovenox dose 12 hours before your procedure. So basically you have no ACT for however long that takes and then they give you another dose of Lovenox when they finish?

Please correct me if that's wrong. It's kind of scary.

Michele

What I've learned......In my case, I have some impaired renal function, so it takes longer for Lovenox to leave my system. I need to stop Lovenox about 18 hours before surgery for myself. If you don't have a renal impairment, I'd suggest to stop 16 hours before surgery.

Your left in a window of no anticoagulation until bleeding is controlled or stopped, then the Lovenox is restarted and your first normal dose of Coumadin together. But yes, there is a window where your unprotected.
 
Limiting the amount of downtime is the reason, as posted above. There is a smaller, more predictable window (assuming normal liver and kidney function) durign which ACT is not in effect.

There are several reasons why they use Lovenox for bridging. Lovenox is a type of heparin, called a low-molecular-weight heparin. There are a number of different types of LMWH, each somewhat different in the way they're made and their actions, but Lovenox (enoxaparin) is by far the most used at this point, having the most reliable action and the fewest interactions and side effects.

Standard heparin is administered by IV and requires frequent monitoring, as it has a somewhat unpredictable and fluid level of action. Because of this, standard heparin isn't very useful outside of a hospital setting. Lovenox can be given by injection once a day and doesn't need to be monitored, so it can be used more easily by outpatients.

Another beneficial feature is that enoxaparin doesn't tamper with thrombin production as much as regular heparin, and has a much lower incidence of heparin-induced thrombocytopenia. There are two types of thrombocytopenia (which occurs in about 5% of standard heparin users), a relatively harmless one that lowers platelet count temporarily, and Type II, which is a bodily counterreaction to the heparin, overcreating thrombin (a coagulant) and causing platelets to become more sticky and prone to clumping. Type II often causes damaging thromboses (clots) and is fatal in about 1/3 of cases.

However, standard heparin is quickly reversible with protamine sulfate, and enoxaparin doesn't undo chemically as easily, so more time is required for the effects to dissipate.

Best wishes,
 
Just a note, most people will crash in two days without the Warfarin. Yes, there are some really slow metabolizers out there that can take up to a week, but it's not the normal. Also don't forget, Warfarin can be reversed with Vit K or fresh frozen plasma to bring you off in a matter of an hour or two.

I just went thru this... inr was 4.1 took 6 bags of FFP and a small shot of Vit K to bring it down to 1.6 (or 1.8) for surgery.
 
They probably didn't need to use the Vit K, but hey, they do what they got to do to fix them bones.
 
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