G
Guest
There was a new study published today by my friend Brian Gage at Washington U in St Louis about the relationship between long-term warfarin use and fractures. I have summarized it at http://www.warfarinfo.com/fractures.htm
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G
Georgia
Thanks, Al. I'd heard about this study on the radio & couldn't find it online.
Is causation implied in the study?
Is causation implied in the study?
G
Guest
Only implied.
If it is not a double-blind, placebo-controlled study then it is not considered to prove causation. How could you do one of those that went on for years? So observation will have to suffice.
I think that if a man is on the small-boned size and has been taking warfarin for a long time, it might be wise to take one of the products that reduces bone loss and maybe weight-bearing exercise.
If it is not a double-blind, placebo-controlled study then it is not considered to prove causation. How could you do one of those that went on for years? So observation will have to suffice.
I think that if a man is on the small-boned size and has been taking warfarin for a long time, it might be wise to take one of the products that reduces bone loss and maybe weight-bearing exercise.
M
Mary
allodwick said:
This might explain why my father-in-law spine is so brittle. He had three small bones "cemented" six weeks ago by the neurosurgeon after complaining of terrible back pain. After they got inside, they discovered that was just the tip of the iceberg. He's been on coumadin since 1985 for afib.
G
Guest
Mary, this might be the answer. Unfortunately we did not really have much more than a hint of this before about a year ago. This is a strong hint but still not proof. Unfortunately there are few alternatives. Lovenox is even worse -- we think. It has been known for a long time that long-term heparin is associated with osteoporosis. He should be talking with his doctors about the osteoporosis medications.
M
Mary
allodwick said:
He's on the meds now, but they don't know how much they can restore. The neurosurgeon couldn't imagine why his PCP had never caught it. Guess it's because they don't associate osteoporosis with men.
G
Guest
It is not just the doctors who don't associate it -- it might have been the insurance company, too.
M
Mary
allodwick said:
Al,
In an earlier post you said it's been known for a long time that long-term heparin has been associated with osteoporosis. It suddenly struck me that doctors and insurance companies might not be the only ones to miss the association. My father-in-law is a practicing pharmacist; apparently he missed it too.
G
Guest
If I were still working in a retail setting, I would probably have missed it, too. I have been very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time for the past 20 years to get where I am now.
BDMc
Well-known member
Thank the Lord
Thank the Lord
I'm so glad you are there Al, and here with us! I think I'll bring this up to my PCP as I'm small boned. As for docs missing, or just not treating Osteoporosis, my mother's has been severe for the past twenty years, and even after multiple fractures wasn't treated by her doctors. She's been on Fosomax(?) for about two years, and it has helped! Brian
Thank the Lord
I'm so glad you are there Al, and here with us! I think I'll bring this up to my PCP as I'm small boned. As for docs missing, or just not treating Osteoporosis, my mother's has been severe for the past twenty years, and even after multiple fractures wasn't treated by her doctors. She's been on Fosomax(?) for about two years, and it has helped! Brian
Thank you, Al, for the article. I shall share it with Al's doctor.
Albert has severe Osteoporosis that was diagnosed via a bone density scan about 5 years ago. He and I have taken calcium supplements for more than 40 years. But, it is no surprise to me that his anticoagulation was a factor in this serious condition. I would be surprised if anyone on long term anticoagulation did NOT have osteoporosis or osteopenia. Coumadin is a vitamin K antagonist. People who take anticoagulants tend to have Vitamin K deficiencies. Vitamin K is a necessary element in bone formation and density......THerefore....http://www.ctds.info/vitamink.html
Albert has been taking Fosamax and a calcium supplement (1500mg) with magnesium, vitamin D, and boron since diagnosed. He has improved each year on measurements taken at the wrist, but not at the hip. Hip's a big bone, which must take a lot of time to build more bone.
Many thanks,
Blanche
THe road goes in many directions. Whatever path you choose, let your heart lead the way.
Albert has severe Osteoporosis that was diagnosed via a bone density scan about 5 years ago. He and I have taken calcium supplements for more than 40 years. But, it is no surprise to me that his anticoagulation was a factor in this serious condition. I would be surprised if anyone on long term anticoagulation did NOT have osteoporosis or osteopenia. Coumadin is a vitamin K antagonist. People who take anticoagulants tend to have Vitamin K deficiencies. Vitamin K is a necessary element in bone formation and density......THerefore....http://www.ctds.info/vitamink.html
Albert has been taking Fosamax and a calcium supplement (1500mg) with magnesium, vitamin D, and boron since diagnosed. He has improved each year on measurements taken at the wrist, but not at the hip. Hip's a big bone, which must take a lot of time to build more bone.
Many thanks,
Blanche
THe road goes in many directions. Whatever path you choose, let your heart lead the way.
G
Guest
Good comments keep me going.
Good discussions do too.
But I refused to even look at the thread about menstruation. Nobody believed me when we had this discussion a few years ago.
Good discussions do too.
But I refused to even look at the thread about menstruation. Nobody believed me when we had this discussion a few years ago.
Al Lodwick:
I remember. We all believe in you and always have from day one. Look at the thread and comment. We need you here. You have always been ahead of your time and that shows most potently on the topic under discussion.
Blanche
I remember. We all believe in you and always have from day one. Look at the thread and comment. We need you here. You have always been ahead of your time and that shows most potently on the topic under discussion.
Blanche
Interesting data
Interesting data
Al,
With that large of a data set, it would be interesting to know if any other
conclusions could reach from his analysis. One important one would be the
correlation between how long one had been on warfarin and bone density.
Was there any other parameter, that had the same out come- diet, exercise,
other medications?
It seems to me that some of us here have been on warfarin so long, that
we should be a fragile as an egg shell.
Interesting data
Al,
With that large of a data set, it would be interesting to know if any other
conclusions could reach from his analysis. One important one would be the
correlation between how long one had been on warfarin and bone density.
Was there any other parameter, that had the same out come- diet, exercise,
other medications?
It seems to me that some of us here have been on warfarin so long, that
we should be a fragile as an egg shell.
G
Guest
This was all that they studied. Probably all that the grant money would cover. There are many other factors that figure in as to whether or not osteoporosis develops. Parathyroid hormone levels, calcium intake, vitamin D intake, weight-bearing exercises all play a role in why some people will have brittle bones while others will not.
