How to stop bleeding in emergency

[alan_delac]

Hi,

One day I'll have to decide between mechanical and tissue aortic valve. I like sailing and I'm not sure how that goes with Coumadin. If you are 2 days away from any medical help and cut yourself, is there a way to stop bleeding if it becomes a problem (some pill or injection that you could administer yourself)?
The other question is, if you do that, would that put you in an immediate and significant danger of coagulation?

Regards

Alan

 

[bvdr]

Bleeding will stop but it takes longer. Direct pressure usually works. I had some minor surgery this week without coming off my coumadin and it caused no major problem at all.

I don't know of any thing to take internally to quickly stop bleeding when in a remote place.

The decision between a mechanical or tissue valve is a very personal one and one that deserves careful consideration. We have many members in both camps. You may find some of the deliberation people have gone through very interesting on the valve selection thread. Go to the bottom of the page to browse through some older posts as well.

I wish you the very best.

 

[djacq]

Alan,

I too have wondered about that. Being out on the ocean and getting injured. That is one of the main reasons I self test with PRO TIME as we live on a boat in the summer. I feel it makes boating less of a risk factor for me.

Al will probably be able to answer your question but I have wondered about keeping injectable Vit K on the boat.

Probably too complicated and more added risk.

Can you wear a helmet during rough weather and working the sails, getting hit by the boom?

Is summer really ever going to come?

Donna

 

[Gemma]

Mind your head!!

Mind your head!!

The boom thing is probably more of an issue than cutting yourself - I used to crew in dinghies when I was younger and the number of times I banged my head on that boom - ouch Don't remember ever cutting myself though.
From what Jim was told, firm pressure for long enough will usually stop bleeding even when on coumadin, the main thing is not to keep checking it every 30 seconds as it'll never stop if you do that!

 

[JimL]

A few weeks ago we had a slight break in the weather and I started a fire in the garden, burned a Christmas tree, some wood scraps, etc. Somehow I cut my little finger at the beginning, I have no idea how, but I noticed all the red snow. I checked my wallet where I usually carry a few bandaids, but none there. I tried freezing it by putting my hand in the snow which made my hand cold but didn't stop the bleeding. I finally made the long trudge back up to the house through six inches of wet snow to get a few bandaids. One did the trick, because it applied the requisite pressure. Then I went back out to finish tending the fire.

That would seem to yield the simple advice to carry bandaids with you. I've been doing that on and off for years before surgery already.

 

[Ross]

If you get whacked in the head with the boom, that might be more dangerous then having a bleeding incident. You'll bleed a little longer, but unless you've severed a limb, I doubt that bleeding to death would even be remotely likely.

 

[Sierra Bob]

Stopping Bleeding

Stopping Bleeding

Since I live in the Sierras and spend a lot of time cutting and spliting wood, and other outdoor activities, I purchased BLEED-X from Medafor (www.medafor.com). It's a powder you apply to a cut. Thankfully, I haven't had any accasion to use it yet, so I don't know how effective it is. I would worry more about internal bleeding from being hit in the head with the boom!!

 

[tommy]

Alan,

(some pill or injection that you could administer yourself)?

This would defeat the coumadin and put you at risk for clotting and stroke.

From boy scout training:
Direct pressure
Hold the cut above the heart.

I also carry band aids in my wallet - always have even before coumadin.

 

[alan_delac]

Dear All,

Thanks for the info, it is really helpful.

My second question is about danger of coagulation. Say you are off Coumadin for a few days. How dangerous is that? I read about study with people with mechanical valves but not taking Coumadin. They had complication rate of about 5% per patient per year. This is much higher rate than for people on Coumadin (about 1-2% per patient per year) but risk in a span of two to three days does not seem to be that much. I guess what I don't understand is if being off Coumadin automatically means blood clots in a very short time or not.


Regards

Alan

 

[Nancy]

Alan-

Being off Coumadin unless it's an adjustment to a high INR, or you have been told to do it prior to some invasive procedure is risky. In those circumstances the INR would be monitored carefully.

The reason people are on it to begin with is to prevent clots from forming on the valve which might ruin the valve, break off and travel to your brain or lung.

I am sure there are people who do all kinds of things they shouldn't. And I am also sure there are people who deeply regret the fact that they did it. They end up getting new valves if they're lucky, strokes if thet're unlucky, and death if they have run out of luck.

Statistics are meaningless if it's you who end up impaired. Some people drop like a rock.

 

[Guest]

Here is what complications boil down to.
If you bleed you can
put pressure on it
put ice on it
cauterize it
suture it
use Bleed-X (I've never known anyone on warfarin who used it)
give vitamin K
give fresh frozen plasma
give clotting factors
give more blood
die

If you clot you can
get a clot buster drug which may cause bleeding
get a new valve
be paralyzed for the rest of your life
clots from a heart valve rarely kill

Almost any bleeding is preferable to almost any clot.

 

[alan_delac]

Thank you all again, I appreciate your advice. Don?t get me wrong, but I was more after scientific facts than emotional advice. I'm not contemplating deliberate days of Coumadin. You can find yourself in situation were you lose the medicine and you are far away from any help.
Response can be: "I'm dead meat, all finish on an operating table or in a wheelchair. Panic"
Or my response can be: "Although I'm in more danger than normally, I should be fine but I better concentrate on getting my medicine as soon as possible."

Reason I'm investigating all this facts and probabilities is to make an informed decision between tissue valve with the certain second operation and mechanical valve with life on Coumadin with associated risks.

Thanks again

Alan

 

[Guest]

I just went through the same thing with my prostate cancer. There is always some emotion involved. You have to "get the facts first and then distort them however you want".

 

[JimL]

Alan, thanks for bringing this up, and Sierra Bob, thanks for the reference to Bleed-X. I called (719) 962-3228 and ordered a BLX-5 for $6.95. They were very helpful. I don't intend ever to use this, but it will be somewhat comforting to have an emergency option available short of the ER and/or super glue.

 

[Sierra Bob]

Hi Jim---I also found Medafor , supplier of BleedX, very helpful. I originally ordered it (after talking to Medafor) to stop the bleeding from oral surgery as a result of osteoradionecrosis (death of my jaw bone due to radiation to eliminate my cancer). However, before receiving the BleedX, the bleeding stopped, so I haven't used it. In any case, I'm happy to have it, living here in the Sierras, and the resulting outside chores. Don't think it would do much good for a chain saw through the leg to the bone though, which I've had in the past. :-(

Regards, Sierra Bob

 

[Guest]

A chain saw cut when it is snowing 2 inches per hour and the road is already closed is my usual example of when a person might bleed to death.

 

[Sierra Bob]

Al--Driving in the snow isn't the problem. It's the d*** trees across the road (from the weight of the snow), which caused the problem . Notice I blame the trees, not my stupidly. Surprizingly, there was essentially no bleeding. The chain mangled the veins/arteries so badly they were closed! A pressure compress stopped all bleeding, until I got to the hospital and they begain cleaning out the wood chips and chain oil. Forty-seven stitches later, there again was no bleeding.

 

[JimL]

I'll keep the Bleed-X next to my chain saw...

 

[Blanche]

Alan:
Two sources of expert information are:
American College of Cardiology Foundation www.acc.org
and American Heart Association www.americanheart.com

If you search these sites, you may find factual information and references to other links that answer some of the many questions that you will encounter as you make a decision on the appropriate valve for you and your circumstances.

From your last post, I sense that you did not receive the information you were seeking, or at least did not find it here in the form you prefer. Hypothetical situations cause me some problems and I'm not always confident about just how I should answer. When I read the post about being on the water, two days from medication, I was tempted to say, first, if you have any booze on board....drink as much as you can. And then, put your head between your legs and kiss your .......Well, you know how that goes. For me. humor in a crisis is the spoonful of sugar that makes the medicine go down....although having none was the problem.

If you are still looking for information in your considerations and believe that testimonials and case studies might help, you might want to post some direct questions here. So many people here have been in your situation. They can provide information,, in many forms, that you might find instructive as well as valid.

You have my best wishes for success in finding information that will help you with a decision that seems overwhelming.

Blanche