Gun Control

[Barry]

In the ongoing saga of my being curious about what folks here think about some of the major issues facing the United States today, wondering what folks think about gun control.

My thoughts on the topic are pretty straightforward: I think the USA's Second Amendment protects the citizenry's right to keep and bear arms as a means of protecting its right to revolution if the goverment ever becomes oppressive. A re-reading of the Declaration of Independence will make it pretty clear what our founders thought should be done when a government becomes oppressive, and most folks seem to forget that our country was founded by armed revolutionaries who didn't necessarily care much one way or the other about the right to go duck hunting.

I think some gun control is necessary, but that enforcement of existing laws is about as much as liberty can tolerate - and that to the extent that you have liberty you have to live with risks. We'd have more liberty with anarchy, but anarchy is too risky for me. We'd have more safety with a police state, but a police state is too oppressive for me*.


* I've visited Cuba twice. Cuba is an amazingly safe country. I felt very safe walking the streets of Cuban cities alone at all hours of the day and night - something that I certainly cannot say of US cities. But Cuba also is an amazingly oppressive police state. While I've visited Cuba twice (legally, BTW), if I were to live in Cuba, I'd probably be a political prisoner by the end of the week!

 

[ShezaGirlie]

Herr Barry...

Herr Barry...

Are you a duck hunter? I had a pet duck named "Peeky."

 

[gadgetman]

Not going there. Nope, not gona do it!!!!! I'll have to hit someone with my NRA card (or is that AARP--I forget) .

May God Bless (and here we go again--Barry you just love to stir )

Danny

 

[geebee]

Barry,

I am going to be very quiet about this one except to say legislation has rarely made a difference in crime in the past. Criminals always manage to get what they need to commit crimes.

We need much more education in this county than legislation.

 

[Barry]

Are you a duck hunter? I had a pet duck named "Peeky."

I didn't shoot Peeky! It wasn't me!!

Actually, duck-hunting is a sport I really don't quite understand: Let's go out in a damp marsh just before dawn when it's coldest, and sit real real still for a few hours to see if some ducks will fly within range of us! Boy howdy, does that sound like fun!!

 

[lance]

Canada and gun control

Canada and gun control

A few years ago the government in it's wisdom iniated legislation for "gun control". Millions if not billions have already been spent on it, they're not done yet and it has accomplished nothing. Every criminal has a gun, maybe several.

Ths political climate is such that to express opposition to gun control means you favour crime.

So here I sit totally opposed to gun toting thugs, and hunting and find myself supporting hunters in their efforts to oppose gun control. Only in Canada you say.

Gun control persecutes law abiding citizens, doesn't keep weapons from the hands of criminals and is a total waste of taxpayers money.

Maybe if I was a member or head of the government I wouldn't want an armed citizenry at large either. So I favour the American amendment that grants citizens the right to bear arms.

 

[geebee]

I used to target shoot years ago when I lived in NJ. You were required to have a Firearms Purchaser Permit which requred a background check and fingerprinting.

I marvelled at the questions that were asked :
Have you ever been convicted of a crime?
Have you ever been arrested?
Have you ever tried to shoot illegally? (not even sure what that one meant)

Like the criminals are going to answer honestly assuming they even tried to get a permit to begin with.

I am reminded of a quote in the movie The American President:
".....a bill that will require laws to be passed before a 7 year-old can buy an ouize (sp?)."

I may have misquoted some but, basically, the conversation was about gun control legislation that was so ridiculous it had no chance of stopping crime.

That is my feeling about gun control (and I said I was going to keep quiet ). It has no chance of stopping crime. Now, before I get lynched, I do acknowledge that removing guns from law abiding citizens could possibly prevent an occasional tragedy in a home. However, education could do that without changing constitutional rights.

Just my 1776 cents.

 

[Barry]

...I agree that gun "control" will never significantly lessen gun related crime.

Actually, I think rigorous gun control can significantly lessen gun-related crime. Along with reducing gun-related suicides and reducing accidental gunshot wounding/deaths.

Now, whether reduced access to firearms would result in criminals and folks who want to kill themselves simply turning to other methods is an open question. My understanding is that after Australia imposed strict (by US standards) gun control, criminals began turning to swords and machetes - and, accordingly, Australia began looking at criminalizing having them, too. Don't know where that endedup.

At the same time I will concede that the Crips and the Bloods didn't exactly line up outside police stations trying to turn in their AK-47's when California passed its assault-weapon law.

But I think that having lax gun-control does make gun-related violence and accidents more likely. I also think that having strict un control does eliminate a safeguard against our having an oppressive government like Germany, Italy, Spain, or Japan during the 40's or like Russia during most of the 20th century. It's a matter of striking a balance between safety and liberty.

On the related issue of hunting... Unless we re-introduce large carnivore predators (e.g. wolves), hunting is the only way that deer herds in the lower 48 of the USA are kept from expanding beyond what their habitat can support. Where hunting has been prohibited, deer herds often have exploded and later collapsed from starvation. I'm OK with hunting, grew up with the "gentleman sportsman" ethic of hunting from my dad (e.g. never shoot at a bird that isn't on the wing (no sitting ducks!), never shoot if you aren't certain of a clean humane kill, don't kill anything you aren't going to eat) although I don't hunt much myself anymore.

 

[Central Jersey Steve]

While we're all at it here, I suggest that we discuss the following topic as well:

Birth Control
Abortion
Separation of Church and State
Should Evolution Be Taught In Schools
Were Don Knotts and Mick Jagger really twins separated at birth

These are just some preliminary topics. After I am finishing stocking my underground bomb shelter, I'll come up w/some more.

 

[Barry]

Steve, you're spot-on: Each of those is a topic for which it would be very interesting to have civil, mature, and well-informed discussion. I can find flame-wars on those topics at any number of forums, and I can hear rants on them on talk radio any time I want. BTW, Mick Jagger and Don Knotts are not twins separated at birth; Don is older than Mick - while they're brothers who were raised in separate families, they're not twins.