gum bleeding

Valve Replacement Forums

Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

hensylee

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2001
Messages
11,656
Location
snowy - Sharpsburg, Ga USA
My brother is on coumadin and has been for a few years. He has Parkinson's and is in assisted living. I monitor his medical stuff. He complains occasionally about gum bleeding. This subject has had lots of discussion in the past, but if you don't mind, could we have a refresher on this. His bleeding does not last very long but is persistent. At what point does one get concerned about it? His INR numbers are always good. Comments, anyone? Thanks.
 
The problem may have more to do with gum disease than coumadin. Does he has regular dental check-ups and teeth cleaning? Does he floss regularly?
Sue
 
What SSJ said...


Although, most of that only happens when brushing one's teeth.

If his gums bleed "spontaineously" then there could be a problem related to the coumadin....


But I'm not a doctor, or a dentist.... =)
 
no gum disease, he has regular dental checkups, brushes 2 or 3 times a day and flosses every day, too, so that's not it. He brushes hard, I am sure, and perhaps that's it. Just want to hear what your doctor says about it, if anything.
 
Try getting the softest bristle toothbrush possible. Harder bristles are more likely to cause bleeding.
 
This brings up an interesting issue that has been on my mind for some time. I floss almost every day. Inevitably, the flossing will cause some nominal amount of bleeding a couple of times a week. We valvers are always cautioned to pre-medicate with antibiotics prior to any dental procedure, including a simple teeth cleaning, because germs can enter the bloodstream during the procedure. I have been told that endocarditis can result.

This has always made me wonder if aggressive flossing might be dangerous to my valve. I wonder if Al Lodwick thinks this is anything to be concerned about.

Ted Hutchins
 
You raise an interesting point. However, you are giving me too much credit for understanding this stuff. I know a lot about warfarin, a little bit about some other stuff and nothing about a lot of things. This is one of the lot of things that I know nothing about.
 
Thanks, Al. I have been away for a month and didn't go with brother for his last INR. Just spoke w/nurse at assisted living. Seems his INR was high and the dr wanted it checked again in a week! NObody told me til today and I will get him back for a recheck pronto. Somebody told HIM, but he has Parkinson's and cannot remember these things and that's why I am 'in charge'. In the meantime, the dr didn't readjust the dosage, pending the new test. Perhaps this is the problem this time and we can get it fixed with a dosage change. Hate doing that, don't y'all?

As for flossing, Ted, perhaps some members have questioned their doctors about it and can shed some light on the subject. We'll wait for them - they always give us good answers. Isn't it good to be able to swap info?
 
Since we can't be on anti-biotics all the time, here's what I do:

I pre-rinse with a plaque remover, then floss/brush. Then I rinse real well with a strong mouthwash. I figure the two rinses help remove as many germs as possible and minimize the chance for blood infection if my flossing/brushing should cause a little bleeding.

I don't know how well this works, but it at least makes me feel like I am doing everything I can to prevent infection.
 
Bill,

I think rinsing with a disinfectant mouthwash after flossing is probably the most important part of the process.

BTW, I see you survived your trip! :D
 
I work in a Dentist's office (front desk) and my hygenist and I have had this conversation a couple of times.

Once you have your "professional cleaning" done, and the hygenist/dentist removes all the bacteria, and then you floss/waterpik/brush daily you are not letting those bacteria get a "foothold" again. The bacteria then don't have the opportunity to multiply and get into your bloodstream and cause an infection.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks, Kristy. I hope your dental hygienist is right. It makes me feel better regardless. Now, I'll be sure and floss every day.

Ted
 
Kristy, I hope you're right!

I'd always heard that the mouth harbors billions of bacteria all the time; that's why we have bad breath in the morning, etc. :cool:
 
In looking around the internet it seems like they say the things that increase the risk is gum disease. I guess I'll be getting a bottle of Listerine now after reading this thread. They say even the strongest prescription only mouthwashes reduce the bacteria by only 50% or so - but anything helps I suppose.

From:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/cardio/messages/30567a.html
>>>>
Q: Antibiotic prophylaxis for those with MVP is required before a dental appointment due to risk that the bacteria in the mouth could enter the bloodstream and thereby potentially infect the mitral valve leading to endocarditis.

My question is: What if one bites her lip, accidentally cuts her mouth, or her gums bleed when brushing or flossing? Is there risk of endocarditis in these situations--where blood and bacteria-ridden saliva mix?

A:
-----------------------
Answer Posted By: CCF CARDIO MD JMF on Saturday, September 18, 1999

Not to scare you but there is always a low level of bacteria in our blood strean that our body defends against. However, these incidents do not cause large overwhelming bacteria in the blood stream that may increase the liklihood of endocarditis.
>>>>

From:
http://www.dentalgentlecare.com/heart_and_oral_health.htm
>>>>
How Can Gum Disease Affect My Overall Health?

The current theory is that bacteria present in infected gums can come loose and move throughout the body. The same bacteria that cause gum disease and irritate our gums might travel to your arteries.

Researchers are unsure what causes the bacteria to become mobile, but it has been suggested that bacteria can be dislodged and enter the bloodstream during tasks as simple as brushing, flossing or even chewing.

Research shows that risk varies according to the level of gum infection. The worse the infection, the more likely the bacterial are to become blood-borne. Infected gums bleed, making it easier for bacteria to enter your bloodstream. If bacteria become dislodged, the bacteria enter through cuts or sores in your mouth and travel to other parts of the body through your bloodstream.

Once bacteria reaches the arteries, they can irritate them in the same way that they irritate gum tissue. This could cause arterial plaque to accumulate in the arteries; which can cause hardening and affect blood-flow.

Compromised blood-flow to your heart can cause a heart attack. Also, arterial plaque can come loose and travel to other parts of the body. If blockage occurs in the brain, it can cause a stroke.

Your dentist may use a special rinse before a dental procedure to neutralize these bacteria, but your best protection is to maintain a healthy mouth.
>>>>

From:
http://www.louisville.edu/~rmatla01/discus/messages/37/37.html?MondayApril1919991147am
>>>>
Phillips says that flossing below the gum line, brushing, rinsing with over-the-counter mouth washes or using a WaterPik oral irrigator will help reduce the amount of bacteria by making the environment less hospitable for the destructive microorganisms that cause gingivitis. These steps are not enough, however. Phillips recommends regular evaluation and professional cleaning using tools that remove bacteria-containing plaque and clean tooth roots. These steps will help remove bacteria-containing plaque from below the gum line. Prescription rinses containing chlorhexedine can help clear up severe gingivitis, he says, and a new antimicrobial toothpaste additive, called triclosan, may provide increased protection from periodontal disease.
>>>>


From:
http://www.healthyplumas.org/fthoi/PlaqueBacteria.html
>>>>
Plaque. It is more than just a sticky, colorless film that forms on your teeth. Plaque is home to colonies of microscopic, potentially disease producing bacteria that live in everyone's mouth. In fact, bacteria make up 98% of plaque.

Plaque also is the cause of gum disease, which will, in some form, affect three out of four Americans and is one of the leading causes of tooth loss in adults, according to the National Institute of Dental Research. Gum disease begins when plaque bacteria form in colonies in hidden crevices below the gumline where toothbrush bristles cannot touch.
>>>>

From:
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/ucdhs/health/a-z/24PeriodontalDisease/doc24prevent.html
>>>>
Mouthwashes. The value of many mouthwashes is highly controversial. Many have only temporary antibacterial value. Some can even harm the mucus membrane and they can be dangerous to children who drink them. Those that are considered plaque fighters are chlorhexidine and Listerine, which is available over the counter.

Chlorhexidine (Peridex or PerioGard) is available by prescription only. It reduces plaque by 55% and gingivitis by 30% to 45%. Patients should rinse for one minute twice daily. They should wait at least 30 minutes between brushing and rinsing since chlorhexidine can be inactivated by certain compounds in toothpastes. It has a bitter taste. It also binds to tannins, which are in tea, coffee, and red wine, so it has tendency to stain teeth in people who drink these beverages.


Listerine is composed of essential oils and is available over the counter. It reduces plaque and gingivitis, when used for 30 seconds twice a day. It leaves a burning sensation in the mouth that most people better tolerate after a few days of use. Some people might object to or have concerns about the high alcohol content in the standard version. Other forms of Listerine that have a different taste and lower alcohol content retain the same active ingredients and appear to be as effective. The usual regimen is to rinse twice a day. Generic equivalents are available.


Mouthwashes containing cetylpyridinium (Scope, Cepacol) and stannous fluoride and amine fluoride (Meridol) have some effect on plaque. None are as effective as Listerine or chlorhexidine, but they may still have some value for people who cannot tolerate the other mouthwashes.


In spite of claims for Plax, some studies report that Plax offers no better protection against plaque or periodontal disease than does rinsing with water. Even Advanced Formula Plax, which may show a minor reduction in plaque levels, does not seem to provide any protection against periodontal disease.
>>>>>
 
waterpik

waterpik

When I had my teeth cleaned just a few days ago, the lady commented on the bleeding and my heart problems. She suggested I get a waterpik. She said this would cut down (or eliminate) the bleeding and also give me healthier gums. She also mentioned how much easier it would be for my daughter to keep her braces clean. She told me that it could leave permanent discoloration on Sara?s teeth around the braces if she didn?t keep them 100% clean. Yikes! Needless to say.... I came home and ordered a waterpik.
 
My dentist also recommends using a Waterpik (along with brushing and flossing).

My dentist says that you shouldn't be bleeding from brushing (she only hands out soft brushes) or from flossing.

She says bleeding indicates inflammation, which is, in turn, an indication of gum disease, and that I should come back and see her ASAP if I should develop bleeding.
 
Rain, years ago I bought maybe the first waterpik that came out. It still goes. Great for help preventing gum disease and for cleanliness. My dentist also prescribed it.

Today, took brother to store and we purchased a child's extra soft brush. Also got a new INR so we will see.
 
It always amazes me how the dentist can scrape around with a sharp peice of metal and then declare with astonishment, "Your gums are bleeding!!" To me it would be more amazing if they DIDN'T bleed.
 
<< It always amazes me how the dentist can scrape around with a sharp peice of metal and then declare with astonishment, "Your gums are bleeding!!" To me it would be more amazing if they DIDN'T bleed.>>

I think my post wasn't clear enough. Sorry.

My dentist didn't think it was astonishing that my gums bled when she was cleaning my teeth. She did say that they shouldn't bleed just because of simple flossing and brushing with a soft brush -- if they were to bleed under those circumstances she said it might be an indication there was something going on that needed attention. (It made sense to me. Since I've been following her instructions, flossing, brushing and using the water pik I haven't had any bleeding at all.)
 
Back
Top