Full Body CT Scan. To Scan or not to Scan?

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RobThatsMe

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Messages
1,456
Location
USA - TN
Hi Everyone,

I was asked to post this information here regarding this topic. It was first posted on the WebMD board by CardioStar. IT contains very useful information about this new proactive approach to heath, and my respsonse is at the end. It is lengthy, but good reading.


A Diagnostic Tool, With Complications

Supporters tout the full-body CT scan for finding disease before symptoms emerge. But medical groups and the FDA warn of their potential for harm.

By Ridgely Ochs

Newsday staff writer

March 19, 2002

The ads are everywhere, on radio, on television and in magazines. "Why wait until symptoms show?" asks one. "Your health is your most important asset."

The pitch is for full-body CT scans, state-of-the-art computerized X-ray technology that within minutes can deliver three-dimensional pictures of the inside of the body, from the neck, to the heart, the lungs, the spine and muscle, and on to the colon and groin.

These scans are being advertised directly to consumers, bypassing doctors and medical organizations, some of which have warned against them.

Supporters say the scans are a quick and painless way to look for disease that hasn't yet produced any symptoms, such as early kidney or lung cancers.

And they say patients who choose to have one - and pay for it out of pocket, because medical insurance isn't covering the cost - are taking an active role in their own health care, a move seen as empowering the patient in this age of rushed doctor visits.

"This is a physical exam everyone will have in the future," said Dr. Richard Penfil, a radiologist and chief executive of CT Screening International, a California-based company that has 13 CT (computerized tomography) sites in the New York City area and on the West Coast.

Penfil said he started the company when he read an article about full-body scans about a year and a half ago and became convinced they were "really very beneficial to patients."

Since then, he said, his three older centers in California, opened a little more than a year ago, have each done about 5,000 scans a year.

But the government and organized medicine say not only is the technology unproven, but it may also do more harm than good.

Experts from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the American College of Radiology and the American Cancer Society, for example, say there have been no studies to show that scans actually save lives.

Moreover, the scan results can lead to other tests or surgical procedures that may not be necessary and that have their own risks, including unnecessary exposure to radiation.

Moreover, they say, the expense can't be justified. "We do have a concern that people are getting irradiated without good reason," said Thomas Shope, radiation physicist in the FDA's center for devices for radiological health.

The FDA approves the manufacture of new models of CT scans for diagnostic purposes, as it has since their arrival in 1976.

But even as the FDA OKs drugs for one purpose that then go on to be prescribed for unrelated conditions, so too are scanning machines winding up being used for purposes unrelated to their initial approval, Shope said.

The American College of Radiology issued a statement in 2000 saying it did "not believe there is sufficient scientific evidence to justify total body computed tomographic (CT) screening at this time." And in February, a review in the New England Journal of Medicine came to the same conclusion.

So the consumer is left to weigh the two messages: from Madison Avenue, an appeal to the basic desire to be healthy, a pitch saying disease can be discovered before symptoms are obvious.

And from organized medicine a note of caution, saying the value of scans needs to be proven over time - and they do have a real downside: exposure to radiation and putting oneself at risk for procedures that may turn out to be unnecessary.

"I guess the core question is: Has anyone proved it is effective? Do we save lives? And if we are unclear about that, are we doing more harm than good?" said Dr. Stephen Swensen, head of radiology at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn.

Swensen is heading one of several ongoing studies looking at the use of CT scans for lung disease; others are evaluating it for heart disease. No large study so far has looked at its use for the whole body.

Despite the apparent concern of some in the medical community, offices offering the procedure at about $850 a scan are popping up all around the New York area.

CTSI, based in California, already has three offices in Manhattan, two in New Jersey, one in Scarsdale and is expecting to open one in Manhasset within the next three or four months, according to Rob Mackey, the company's East Coast regional manager.

Imaging for Life, headed by Dr. George Berk and owned by private individuals, has offices in White Plains and Manhattan and is planning to open offices on Long Island, New Jersey and Connecticut, according to Marc Manuel, the company's executive vice president.

Both companies say they offer the latest in computerized X-ray technology and, just as important, give the patient time with a doctor, who explains the results and follows up to ensure that the patient has taken any suspicious findings back to his or her doctor for review.

A full-body scan, using either an electron beam CT scan or multislice, multihelical CT scan - the two most advanced ways pictures are taken - typically includes a scan of the neck (**at some facilities using customized software you can also scan (screen) your head for brain tumors, ear infections, sinusitus, etc.), starting at the thyroid, the heart, the lungs, the abdomen, colon and pelvic area, said Dr. Anouk Stein, the radiologist at the CTSI Broadway site.

The patient can also opt for a "virtual colonscopy," which requires taking a preparation the day before to clear the bowels.

For a full-body scan, a patient lies on a table that moves through a spinning doughnutlike device that takes the pictures. The procedure is painless and typically takes less than 15 minutes. Both companies say the patient gets the results immediately, both on paper and on a CD-ROM.

The scan has not proven effective at finding two of the most common cancers, tumors in the breasts and the prostate, because it doesn't provide enough detail and contrast, Stein said.

But it can spot a range of problems, from emphysema in the lungs to calcium buildup in the coronary arteries, aneurysms and spinal problems, she said.

C. Richard Prince, 56, a tax consultant who works down the hall from Stein, was given a free CT scan when the office opened three months ago so that Stein and the CT technicians could refine their procedure.

----?He had been given a clean bill of health at his physical exam a few months earlier. But the scan showed a mass on his right kidney. He took the results to his doctor, and further tests showed it to be a 3- to 4-centimeter CANCER.

He underwent surgery to have it removed, along with about a quarter of his kidney. Kidney cancer, which accounts for 3 percent of cancers in men (it is less common in women), is generally not detected until there is blood in the urine or there are other symptoms such as pain in the side or back, and Prince feels the scan saved his life. "It was a blessing all around," Prince said. "I'm a walking testimonial."

Cases like his have convinced Stein - who admitted she had reservations about full-body CT before she took the job - that it is a useful tool.

"I did have to think very hard about whether I was contributing or hurting," she said. "I've been here three months, and I'm convinced I'm contributing."

But the coauthor of a review in the New England Journal of Medicine last month said that although he is sure some people believe the full-body scan is a useful and important diagnostic tool, others are just looking for a way to make a quick buck by marketing an essentially unproven test directly to consumers.

"I truly believe there are people who are doing it because they believe it is the right thing to do, and then there are people who are doing it because it is a good business," said Dr. Thomas Lee, chief medical officer for the health network started by Massachusetts General Hospital and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.

Lee, like many interviewed, said he is most troubled by the fact that the scan picks up lots and lots of spots; the older you are, the more likely something will show up, he said.

The great majority of these will turn out to be benign or would never become a threat, he said.
But each one discovered will require a follow-up test or treatment that is costly and carries its own risks.

Lee, a cardiologist, cited the example of a CT scan used to detect coronary calcifications - which would be one part of a full-body scan. The hypothesis is that calcium in the arteries can identify people at risk of developing heart disease, and it is an area of much research.

But an expert panel in 2000 concluded that while 80 percent of the time the CT picked something out in the arteries, that "something" turned out to be calcium only 40 percent of the time.

"That means that 60 percent of the time people have an abnormal test when there is actually nothing wrong (false positive)," Lee said.

Swensen has had similar results with his study using CT scans of the lungs - another hot area of research because lung cancer is the top cancer killer. Most are detected too late to be treated effectively.

In a National Institutes of Health- sponsored study, Swensen has recruited 1,520 smokers or former smokers for an annual CT screen of the lungs and abdomen.

In its fourth year, the study has so far detected 44 lung cancers, about 60 percent of them in the early stage, which is associated with longer survival.

"On the surface that is good news," he said. But he has also detected 2,900 lung nodules. "Ninety-nine percent of lung nodules are benign," he said. But each one requires a biopsy - an invasive, painful and costly procedure. It can also be deadly. Studies have found that about 4 percent of surgeries taking out lung nodules result in death, Swensen said.

He is continuing the study, but, he said, he has serious questions. "I still have hope; we need to know. But it's absolutely unproven, and we could realistically be doing more harm than good," he said.

While patients pay out of pocket for the scan, what worries some doctors is the impact that follow-up tests and procedures - typically done by the patient's regular doctor and paid for by insurance - will have on an already overburdened medical system.

"People say, 'Look, we save lives; we discover disease' .... The thing they don't talk about is the prevalence of abnormalities.

It's extremely high and most are benign .... From a societal perspective, we have to decide whether this is cost effective," said Dr. Dirk Sostman, head of radiology at Weill Medical College of Cornell University in Manhattan.

But for some, the cost and risk are acceptable. A detective sergeant with the New York City Police Department said he decided to have a full-body CT scan and virtual colonoscopy after he heard the ads on the radio.

He had worked at Ground Zero and also at the scene of the crash of American Airlines flight 587 in Queens, and he was concerned about his health.

"I just figured it was time to find out if I was all right," said the officer, who asked not to be named. He had felt a lump on his side, but had never mentioned it to his doctor.

The scan showed a mass near his liver. His doctor subsequently ordered other tests, and he was diagnosed with a lipoma, a common benign tumor of fatty tissue. It was removed by a surgeon. Lipomas are benign and usually don't have to be removed. But the officer said he was glad to have the surgery.

Another concern is unnecessary radiation. Radiation exposure from a full- body scan is about 2 to 3 rads, according to Dr. Fred Mettler, chairman of radiology at the University of New Mexico and the U.S. representative to the United Nation's scientific committee on the effects of radiation.

That's about 10 times higher than from natural background radiation, about 10 times higher than from a mammogram and about 100 to 300 times higher than exposure from a chest X-ray, he said.

Internal organs get about 70 percent of what hits the skin, although those closer to the surface, such as the thyroid or testicles, absorb more, he said.

Based on studies from Nagasaki, where one of the atom bombs was dropped, small but statistically significant increases in cancers begin to appear at about 5 rads of exposure, he said.

So it's possible that someone getting annual full CT scans at a fairly young age could develop cancer decades later as a result, he said.

It's also possible that, given the high number of findings that need to be followed up, exposure could mount from subsequent scans or X-rays - all perhaps unnecessarily, if the full-body CT can't be shown to save lives, Mettler said. "It's a risk-vs.-benefit issue," he said.

And that's especially troubling, he said, because full-body CT doesn't easily detect breast and prostate cancers, and "it's still not clear with lung nodules."

It is not particularly good at detecting ovarian, cervical or endometrial cancer either, he said. As for virtual colonoscopy, "you still have to do the prep, and there are a lot of false positives that lead to [regular] colonoscopy.

It's not clear in my mind that it will catch on," he added.
But it is in the mind of Dr. Stephen Koch, radiologist at Imaging for Life in Manhattan. Koch started doing full-body CTs about 2 1/2 years ago in Beverly Hills, Calif., catering mostly to a wealthy clientele, including actors.

In New York, he says, most of his patients are blue-collar or middle-class, and most feel "disenfranchised" by managed care. Much of the criticism he gets from doctors reflects fear they are losing control over patients - and dollars from their pockets, he says.

"What it boils down to is that people are saying 'I want to do this without all the gatekeepers' .... Who really controls one's health? I believe in America we are free citizens ....and we should have the option," Koch said.

His most popular procedure is a full-body CT scan coupled with a virtual colonscopy, and he believes such procedures will become widely accepted over time.

But right now the lines are drawn - without much evidence on either side. As Sostman of Cornell put it: "Total-body screening is really pretty much a matter of opinion."

Not part of this article

HealthView on Psychology Today

**Interview date: 10/31/00

Dr Harvey Eisenberg from HealthView, Inc. in California who appeared on Oprah's show and said that his facility received about 10,000 calls after the program first aired.

Question:

**Is there any particular reason why at the moment why you are not scanning the head and the legs?

Dr. Eisenberg:

"The particular technology and techniques we are using
really aren't giving enough yield in the types of pathology as we we would want to find in the brain.

So we don't want to give people a test that just says we've l@@ked at the head (or legs) without feeling that we've l@@ked at it in a way that would have found the important dieases one would want to find.

If we want to do the head currently here at HealthView, we give the patient the option of having an open-MRI exam.

It does of course add to the cost and time but we offer that as an option."

___

Thanks for reading this message

Take care


CardioStar*


Hi CardioStar,


Just wanted to say thanks for your informative post.

If I had a full body scan a few years ago, it would have caught my aortic dissection before it ruptured. I now have a full scan done yearly due to the dissection and aneurysm. Every 6 months if the aneurysm shows signs of enlarging.

Many people die each year from dissections and aneurysms. They are known as the silent killers. Most never know they have them until it is too late. According to the stats, if one ruptures, 80% never make it to the hospital, and of those that do, only 50% survive the surgery. In my case, they only gave me a 3 to 6% change of surviving the surgery.

I would recommend a full scan to anyone who has a family history of aneurysms, dissections, Marfans disease, or any degenerative tissue disorder, or artery disease.

Just wanted to share my thoughts. They are obviously slanted do to my personal experience, but none the less, I think valid.

Thanks again, I am pasting your article in my files of health related documents.

Rob
 
Scannin'

Scannin'

Thanks Rob, for posting that long,yes, but very interesting topic that we all should be aware of.

While there is controversy regarding it, it would seem the 'pros' outweigh the 'cons'. It certainly is a vital tool in your case!!!

It's so time consuming to keep up with all the life saving new tests/procedures that pop up! I find it so helpful when someone is good enough to take the time to update us. The more we know, the more we can control our own healthcare.

Salud,

Joan *~*
 
No comments ???

No comments ???

I found it interesting that no one had any opinions or experience to offer on this subject???? I sure would like to hear some opinions/or input...ANYONE???

Joan
 
Rob, my husband had a PET scan when they suspected he had pancreatitis. It tuned out to be his Kindey, recall?

Anway, if it were not for the PET scan.....which as I understand it is more definative than a regular CT. They would have not picked up on the tumor in the Kidney. They are advertising this scan roadside in Chicago. Noticed that when I was in town a few weeks ago.

Saved his life, yes in deed! He just had his six month and is doing beautiflly. No matisizing to the lungs. That was my worst fear! If it spread during surgery, that is the first place it goes. Looking good!
 
Hey Joan... I had a full body scan while in the hospital. Trying to remember precisely... but I believe it was when I was there with the pleural effusion. As to anything else about it... I don't remember too much about that time... only that it was hard for this fidgety Zazzy to hold still that long! lol As for the test results... I had forgotten about it until this article was posted on WebMD. I still have to remember to get my records from the hospital one of these days! ha ha

They are now doing studys on how Gleevec affects memory... ha!!! Another excuse!!! hee hee

Take care
Zazz
 
body scan

body scan

Hi Rob,
My husband, last summer, went for one of those traveling echos they were offering at one of the local churches. Paid for it out of pocket. Thank goodness he did. They found a severe blockage in his left carotid artery. 90%!!! He was sent to a vascular surgeon and it was taken care of this past Feb. That was stroke material waiting to happen. He was told that was rare in one his age - 53. So he is being tested to see if he "makes" the bad cholestral and we take steps from there. Thank God for that echo!
I, on the other hand, was told after my surgery for an enlarged aortic root and bad aortic valve, that I did not have Marfans but had some of the characteristics for it being tall and long limbed. So I don't know if I should ask about a body scan or not. I was assured that my aorta was distended from the bad valve. It's hard to know who to believe or what to do. I can't help but believe that it will save lives. A quandry. :confused:
 
Hey Zazz

Hey Zazz

Thanks for response...I posted on WebMD that I've heard MD's using the "whole body SCAM" with a cynical attitude and was hoping for opinions there from people other than C* and Rob to see if anyone's Doc has expressed their opinion of the "whole body scan", since mobile units are popping up everywhere. Insurance does not cover and Doc's do not need to order it. I'm going to talk to the Doc's at my hospital when time permits and ask why this negative comment has been used.

My curiosity always wants lots of opinions! Thanks to those who responded.

Salud,

Joan
 
Me again...yikes..lol

Me again...yikes..lol

I just spoke to my doctor about this...He said the only real concern would be the high levels of radiation received. He Added it's best to weigh the risks/benefits before having this done as it certainly can help discover certain things. He recommends regular checkups and consultation with one's Doctor before having this scan.

Sorry to 'bug' about this..but I'm trying to decide if it's something I want to do.

Thanks for listening!

Joan
 
Test cost

Test cost

From what I've heard, I believe the test is around $800.00..not covered by insurance as it does not have to be ordered by a doctor. If anyone can add any furthur..jump in..*~* Joan
 
Mine was done in the hospital after my heart sugery... I would have to dig through piles of insurance papers to find the cost... but I could if you wish!
 
Hi,

I just had CT's done. Thoractic, Abdominal and Pelvic. The total cost ws $3,600 Whew... glad I have insurance!

Rob
 
Thanks Rob..(persistant...ain't .lol) Yours was ordered by your Doc, obviously, so insurance covers..Whew!

I hope all is OK with your results! Keep us posted! Take care,

Joan
 
Hi Joan,

Everything checked out just fine. No new size to my aorta in the aneurysm areas they are watching, and my dissection also showed no new developments. It was a great 2nd year checkup.

Next stop, my cardiologist in 2 weeks... then I guess I can say I have completed my 100,000 mile checkup. lol.

Now, if I have the winning number for this weekends' 200 million dollar lottery... Hmmm... well now.. wouldn't that just be grand!

Rob
 
Sorry, Rob.

I am pretty sure I have the ticket.


Marybeth

PS - Congratulations on the checkup! Now, my friend, thats worth 400 million!
 
Hi Marybeth,

Well, the drawing is tonight for 200 mil !! Guess we'll find out soon who has the lucky ticket>

<fingers crossed>

hehehehe!!

Rob
 
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