First time posting. Tissue Valve Selection.

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adnan

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Pune, Maharashtra, India
Hi,

I have congenital heart disease. A VSD with aortic regurgitation. Apparently, the VSD has damaged the aortic valve to the extent that it needs replacement. I have RCC prolapse which is causing the leaking. I also have ROSV (rupture of Sinus of Valva) which needs to be patched. I am 27 years. And it’s a shame because I have been living a healthy life (relatively) and am quite active. It’s an even bigger shame that I don’t really feel any symptoms and I still have to go through the surgery as the doctors say if I don’t, my heart will get really messed up in about a year.

Doctors recommended a surgery in 1996 when I was 9 years old to fix the VSD and replace my valve. But my parents didn’t go through with it and I am glad they didn’t because I got to live 18 years without taking anti-coagulants. The only downside to this was that I never had any stamina for running. I was able to lift weights, but I could never perform well in sports that require a lot of stamina.

I think in 2007, my aortic regurgitation went from being moderate to mild and it was recommended that I just close the VSD via a catheter. Unfortunately, I didn’t go through with the catheter surgery and now the aortic regurgitation is severe along with ROSV. I think my careless lifestyle (smoking, unhealthy eating habits, not being regular with any physical activities) from 2007 till 2013 had a lot to do with this. So, now I don’t have an option but to do the surgery.

A part of me wants to believe that if I don’t do the surgery, and continue living a healthy lifestyle, my heart will improve on its own and perhaps I can again have an option of fixing the VSD with a catheter. But I have come to the realization that’s just wishful thinking. Correct me if I am wrong here.

After doing a lot of research over here and thinking about what type of life I want to live, I’ve realized I want to go with a tissue valve. My reason being I plan to travel a lot in the upcoming years. I have the financial freedom to be able to travel a lot and I don’t want Warfarin management to be a chore while travelling. If I miss a meal, I’ll have to be worried about my INR levels. I’ll have to be consistent with my diet and that’ll be quite difficult if I am changing cities every few weeks. I also want to the possibility of contact sports (like football, which I could never be good at because of the stamina issue) be open to me.

I started surgeon hunting. The first surgeon I met told me that there is a risk of death of 10-15%. I was quite shocked by it since it wasn’t what I read about open heart surgeries on the net. However, this surgeon was quite open to the possibility of repairing my heart valve. He told me there's a 50/50 chance of him repairing the valve. His attitude was, "let's be optimistic". Even though, most of the cardiologists I've met till now, all of them have said that I’ll definitely have to replace the valve and there is almost no chance of repairing.

The second surgeon I met is probably the most experienced surgeon with congenital heart diseases in India. He has performed over 10,000 surgeries. He told me there is a risk of death of 1%. However, he is almost 100% sure that I’ll have to replace the valve and repairing it is not an option. He says that repairing the valve might work on the table but unless he is absolutely sure that it will work for a long time, he would replace the valve. This surgeon is also quite set in his ways. He is not really into new valves and he wants to use the tried and tested valves. As opposed to the previous surgeon, who told me he will put any valve I like.

Both the surgeons work in the top 2 heart hospitals in India. Although, I have much more confidence in the second surgeon since he seemed confident and has a lot more experience under his belt.

I wanted to ask you guys about this. Should I go for the first surgeon simply because he is optimistic of repairing the valve? If the valve can be repaired, I’ll have the possibility of never having to undergo surgery again. Perhaps I should look into more surgeons? Actually, as I am typing this, I already know the answer to this question.

Also, my surgeon recommended the Carpentier-Edwards PERIMOUNT tissue valve. I read that Medtronics have some very promising tissue valves like the Mosaic, and Hancock II and Freestyle.

Should I try to convince my surgeon to use these valves instead of the old tried and tested Carpentier-Edwards PERIMOUNT? Or should I let him use what he is comfortable using? It’s a tricky question since a better valve could mean almost 5 years more without surgery.

Is there any other new tissue valve in the market that I should look into?

Also, what argument can I make to my surgeon to convince him to use a different tissue valve?
 
Hi Adnan

I can't answer your questions on tissue valves since I have a mechanical but I too had a VSD closure and AVR surgery at the age of 19 & I'm 28 now. glad you have decided to go ahead with the surgery and don't worry you can continue to live a full life after the surgery coz I never missed out on anything ! :)

Wish you all the best!
I live very close to India

Cheers
 
Hi Adnan

I can't answer your questions on tissue valves since I have a mechanical but I too had a VSD closure and AVR surgery at the age of 19 & I'm 28 now. glad you have decided to go ahead with the surgery and don't worry you can continue to live a full life after the surgery coz I never missed out on anything ! :)

Wish you all the best!
I live very close to India

Cheers

Thanks for your reply Manisham. It's good to hear from people with similar case. I am still a little afraid of surgery. But I guess that's normal pre-surgery stress.
 
Hi Adnan, I am 49 years and and just got a Edwards tissue Aortic valve, I too did not want to take blood thinners and worry about he slde effects from that. It has been 7 weeks since my surgery and I feel very good, my blood pressure is perfect and my heart rate also. I have been taking daily walks around 2.5 kilometers with no problems. Good luck what ever you choose, I would go with the second doctor.
 
Adnan, welcome to VR. As I have suggested in the past, there is little good follow up research that would allow us to pick specific heart valves intelligently. When you go to the website of the manufacturer, you read their carefully crafted descriptions which can make the devices sound like they are the best of the best, however, It is not wise to make a decision based on such information shallow discussions. New valves are valves without much track record. The Edwards Perimont is approaching its 20 year mark and that track record is showing it to be generally a good valve but no amount of statistical research will tell you that it is the "Best" valve for you. Statistical studies address what happens in groups; not individuals. You are not buying a car. You and I may become familiar with valve descriptions and statistics but only our surgeons have years of expertise that advise their recommendations. You and I take advantage of those years of experience by working with our surgeon in selecting a valve. In my case, my surgeon recommended the Perimont based on his experience with similar patients because it is flexible and continues performing should tissue grow around the valve as happened to my Uncle. Before working with my surgeon, I would never have considered this an issue. This surgeon is going to be holding your heart in his hand and snipping off bits of it. I think we all want that to be a surgeon who has as much experience as possible.

You also seem to be thinking of selecting a valve to support your "life style" and I think that is a reasonable approach. Making a choice of valve that does not require anticoagulant therapy is a reasonable but if you read more of the experiences of members of VR, you will find that there are many very active people who have mechanical valves. There is a lot false information associated with anticoagulant therapy and I think may find that it is much less of a problem than may think at present. For example, missing one meal would probably have little effect on INR and I don't think it is necessary to eat exactly the same food every week. This is a time when you need to act on real information, not rumor or hearsay.

I do find your mention of "binge drinking" to be almost incomprehensible with respect to valve choice. How you choose to live your life is an important element in shaping your future with a prosthetic heart valve. Your heart will heal after a valve replacement but it will never be "normal". The more frequently you insult your heart, the less effective will be your recovery from surgery and the future performance of your cardiovascular system. I find myself wondering why you are considering surgery at this time if, after surgery, you are not planning to choose living in a fashion that gives you the best chance for a healthy future.

Larry
 
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Hi Adnan, I am 49 years and and just got a Edwards tissue Aortic valve, I too did not want to take blood thinners and worry about he slde effects from that. It has been 7 weeks since my surgery and I feel very good, my blood pressure is perfect and my heart rate also. I have been taking daily walks around 2.5 kilometers with no problems. Good luck what ever you choose, I would go with the second doctor.

It's great to hear you are doing so well after the surgery. I hope my recovery is as good as yours.
 
Adnan, welcome to VR. As I have suggested in the past, there is little good follow up research that would allow us to pick specific heart valves intelligently. When you go to the website of the manufacturer, you read their carefully crafted descriptions which can make the devices sound like they are the best of the best, however, It is not wise to make a decision based on such information shallow discussions. New valves are valves without much track record. The Edwards Perimont is approaching its 20 year mark and that track record is showing it to be generally a good valve but no amount of statistical research will tell you that it is the "Best" valve for you. Statistical studies address what happens in groups; not individuals. You are not buying a car. You and I may become familiar with valve descriptions and statistics but only our surgeons have years of expertise that advise their recommendations. You and I take advantage of those years of experience by working with our surgeon in selecting a valve. In my case, my surgeon recommended the Perimont based on his experience with similar patients because it is flexible and continues performing should tissue grow around the valve as happened to my Uncle. Before working with my surgeon, I would never have considered this an issue. This surgeon is going to be holding your heart in his hand and snipping off bits of it. I think we all want that to be a surgeon who has as much experience as possible.

You also seem to be thinking of selecting a valve to support your "life style" and I think that is a reasonable approach. Making a choice of valve that does not require anticoagulant therapy is a reasonable but if you read more of the experiences of members of VR, you will find that there are many very active people who have mechanical valves. There is a lot false information associated with anticoagulant therapy and I think may find that it is much less of a problem than may think at present. For example, missing one meal would probably have little effect on INR and I don't think it is necessary to eat exactly the same food every week. This is a time when you need to act on real information, not rumor or hearsay.


Larry

Hey Larry,

Thanks so much for your reply. You have given me much more confidence about the valve choice and going with what the surgeon recommends.

I've read a lot about Warfarin management on these forums and the rest of the internet. And I know it's not as big a deal as most people make it sound. And if I was at a time in my life where I was settled down and had a pretty stable life, then I would've definitely gone for a mechanical valve. And perhaps by the time my tissue valve wears out, I'll be in a position in my life when I'd prefer a mechanical valve. In fact, my initial decision was a mechanical valve. But the fact that INR management is going to be a hindrance in my travelling was making me depressed. Once I decided to go with a tissue valve, I felt much more satisfied with my decision.
 
Hi

I just don't want to be worried about my INR levels every time I want to party.
It has never been a problem for me, even after a half a bottle of brandy or two bottles of red wine. People who make these remarks about alcohol usually are not even self testing to know

But the fact that INR management is going to be a hindrance in my travelling was making me depressed. Once I decided to go with a tissue valve, I felt much more satisfied with my decision.

I am now back in Australia after 9 months trip in Finland and Europe. I backpacked in UK and Ireland in April and then a bit of Germany or Luxemburg. Anyone who tells you its a hindrance has either got their head in a bag or is locked in a 20th Century view of the world with lab testing. We've been in the 21st for nearly 14 years now

Chose any valve you like, but don't believe rubbish about warfarin that is simply wrong.
 
hi adnan, welcome aboard, looks like youve made your choice and feel at ease with it, i to did not want to be on anti coags and the problems that can occur with it, what type of tissue pig or cow ? , am sure your surgery will be just fine, the waiting is defo the worst part, good luck adnan, ps a lot of stuff about warfarin is wrong but a lot is right, some people just dont want to be on it if possible full stop, as some dont want re ops, its what you call CHOICE,
 
I would go with the most experienced surgical team. It's more than just the surgeon. I would also let the surgeon choose the specific type of valve, they are the experts. That's what you are paying them for.

I don't know anything about repair vs. replacement, however since you opted for tissue valve, at 27yo you will get reoperations. Since your choice will require reoperations anyway, repair vs. replacement may have the same general outcome. If you had opted for mechanical, then you might not favor repair, since the reason to go mechanical is to avoid reoperations.

You are mistaken about alcohol and warfarin. There is not a specific interaction between warfarin and alcohol. Per my medical staff at the hospital, my cardiolgist and rehab staff, people are told to watch alcohol on warfarin for the risk of falling and injury. Most people on warfarin are old and take many medications and have many other problems. Falling is their biggest problem while on warfarin, thus anything that can upset balance is contraindicated.
 
Hi


It has never been a problem for me, even after a half a bottle of brandy or two bottles of red wine. People who make these remarks about alcohol usually are not even self testing to know



I am now back in Australia after 9 months trip in Finland and Europe. I backpacked in UK and Ireland in April and then a bit of Germany or Luxemburg. Anyone who tells you its a hindrance has either got their head in a bag or is locked in a 20th Century view of the world with lab testing. We've been in the 21st for nearly 14 years now

Chose any valve you like, but don't believe rubbish about warfarin that is simply wrong.

Hi Pellicle,

Thanks for your reply. Actually, I've seen many of your posts and I even read your post on backpacking. Earlier, when I decided to go with a mechanical valve, your posts helped me great deal in giving me hope and making me realize that I'll be able to do pretty much everything I want even if I choose a mechanical valve. But ultimately, I wasn't happy with my decision.
 
hi adnan, welcome aboard, looks like youve made your choice and feel at ease with it, i to did not want to be on anti coags and the problems that can occur with it, what type of tissue pig or cow ? , am sure your surgery will be just fine, the waiting is defo the worst part, good luck adnan, ps a lot of stuff about warfarin is wrong but a lot is right, some people just dont want to be on it if possible full stop, as some dont want re ops, its what you call CHOICE,

It's a piggy. :)
 
I would go with the most experienced surgical team. It's more than just the surgeon. I would also let the surgeon choose the specific type of valve, they are the experts. That's what you are paying them for.

I don't know anything about repair vs. replacement, however since you opted for tissue valve, at 27yo you will get reoperations. Since your choice will require reoperations anyway, repair vs. replacement may have the same general outcome. If you had opted for mechanical, then you might not favor repair, since the reason to go mechanical is to avoid reoperations.

You are mistaken about alcohol and warfarin. There is not a specific interaction between warfarin and alcohol. Per my medical staff at the hospital, my cardiolgist and rehab staff, people are told to watch alcohol on warfarin for the risk of falling and injury. Most people on warfarin are old and take many medications and have many other problems. Falling is their biggest problem while on warfarin, thus anything that can upset balance is contraindicated.

Thanks for the info about warfarin and alcohol Tom. Most people just talk about keeping alcohol intake consistent. It's good to hear that it's not a big deal. I heard that alcohol increases your INR level and you increase your risk of bleeding by intaking alcohol.

I understand it's not a big deal and it's all manageable. But I still prefer tissue for now. Perhaps, in the reop, I'll go for a mechanical valve. But I definitely don't want to be on warfarin right now in my life.
 
Hi

Actually, I've seen many of your posts and I even read your post on backpacking. Earlier, when I decided to go with a mechanical valve, your posts helped me great deal

well I am really glad that I could help you in your process in any way, thanks for letting me know that, its nice of you.


But ultimately, I wasn't happy with my decision.
indeed its a hard won battle to make the decision. Ultimately I believe strongly that only each person can make the decision (indeed each person should make the decision for them selves as its an important part of our journey in life. To me going back and forward in which you favour is a good thing and helps you to make sure you are seeing the optins from more angles.

As an engineering sort of guy I personally demand of myself to know as much as I can which is true and accurate in making my decisions. My intention is always to assist others get at what is as true and
accurate as possible. However truth is often a slippery eel. My intention with discussion is to facilitate as many views as possible and hopefully some of those will fit with the needs and wishes of each person.

The decision must always be yours , but should be made without myths clouding the process.

For instance a personal decision to not want to do something because you simply don't want to is really all that matters. I only see a problem when the decision is based on flawed information.

Best wishes to you in your decision process and please don't feel rushed or swayed by emotional arguments. As I just said to someone recently: kicking the can down the road with a tissue valve gives the opportunity for you to be able to take advantage in developments in technology, such as better AC therapy and even better mechanical valves (such as the ATS Forcefield technology).

There is nothing "wrong" with any choice as there are no certanties with any choices, only probabalities

:)
 

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