Drinks

[aciofalo]

So does anyone know if other drinks interact with coumadin besides cranberry or grapefruit....also I do not want watered down information...does anyone know how or why cranberry and grapefruit affect the inr ratio?

Also another post about alcohol...again I am not happy with the answer just because like so many teachers use to tell me....

Does anyone know the major fear about drinking alcohol? Is it a GI bleed is it falling down or is it the affect on the INR

Also, after reading the previous posts and speaking with my coumadin specialist (she said alcohol will make coumadin thin your blood even more..I am fed up with hearing from medical professionals coumadin is a blood thinner...i realize its easier to refer to it that way but I want explanations not brief references) there is no consensus as to how alcohol affects the INR raises or lowers? some posts people show no affect.

And last but not least I am not happy with drink in moderation explanation because 2 glasses of wine does not equal 2 glasses of beer and 2 bottles of corona do not equal 2 pints of a beer of higher percent of alcohol...it must be the percent of alcohol that interacts with coumadin I assume...no one mentions how much hard liquor coumadin patients can drink...I used to drink scotch but I am unsure how much I can safely drink now...and also one glass of scotch is not an answer because there are different sizes of glasses and you can have it neat or on the rocks

Sorry for the long post I am just frustrated with medical professionals speaking to me as if I am lacking intelligence and water down their answers..as my brain requires logic reasoning and preciseness...

Thanks for any replies

 

[skeptic49]

Welcome to VR! This topic has come up before and there are discussions that you can access by doing a search.

For Example, see:

http://valvereplacement.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27375&highlight=alcohol+consumption

It seems as though the possibility of GI bleeding due to alcohol consumption is a concern, if you have ulcers, etc. However, there were individuals who said that they were able to consume alcohol in moderate amounts or more without problems.
Best wishes,

Jim

 

[Ross]

Cranberries have been cleared!!!! It was all based on bogus information to start with. I still drink grapefruit juice, but I wait about 4 hours after taking the Coumadin to do it. Nothings happened to me yet. I'm pretty sure Dick does the same thing and he's been on the stuff a longer then I have.

Drink alcohol in moderation. The fear is, starting a GI bleed, which could be serious enough to kill you. Falling down I can do just fine without being drunk, so that's not problem for me.

You can have alcohol, but if you overdo it and overdo daily, it's likely to increase your INR. For the most part, if you just use common sense, have 1 or 2 drinks, you'll be fine with no INR change.

For your reference, I like bloody mary's and when I do drink, I have about 3 of them with about 2 oz of 80 proof Vodka in them. It hasn't disturbed my INR at all.

http://www.warfarinfo.com/grapefruit-juice.htm

http://www.ptinr.com/data/templates/article.aspx?a=654&z=1

 

[Bina]

Hello and welcome,
If you find that some docs are "watering down" their responses to you, it may just seem that way because there really is no set rule as to how each individual and their INR will react to certain influences.
Apparently you are only 2 months out of surgery, so hopefully your INR is stable enough before you decide to test your limits with it. We have members who drink 1-2 per day, and we have others who enjoy a bottle or two of wine on the weekend evenings.
Usually alcohol consumption is measured in that a regular bottle of beer, a glass of wine, and a shot of hard stuff, are all basically equal. (concentration and volume balance out).
If you are not on any other meds, like for BP, try having a couple of drinks a few days before your next INR test and see where it goes.
Regarding Cranberry, a person would really need to drink it 5 times a day all week to maybe affect the INR.
And like Ross said, grapefruit is best consumed a few hours away from any meds.

 

[Herb M]

Pomegranite juice has anti-coagulation properties.

 

[westie]

3 standard drinks per day

3 standard drinks per day

i usually have 3 drinks per day, 3 beers or half a bottle of wine. i have no problems and perhaps because my habit is regular, my inr is stable. but beware that a "standard drink" as defined by health authorites etc is somewhat less than the drink size we may pour at home. alcohol is alcohol, the type/mixer does not matter.

all 3 of my doctors/specialists see no problem with the amount i drink, the cardiologist said it was important to be happy.

nurses seem to have a diferent attitude saying one drink per day is good, 2 drinks are ok and 3 are bad! (but they are not refering to inr)

 

[ctyguy]

I probably have 4-6 beers from Friday after work till Sunday afternoon with no issues at all. Some weekends I might not have any, some I may have 8 or 9, and I've had my INR tested the following Monday and have still been in range or very close to it. I can't speak to hard alcohol because to be honest Im content with beer. I've put a limit on myself to have no more than 5 beers at any one function. And by 5 I mean 12oz servings. 3 if I have to drive because I think you do get drunk faster on coumadin.

Hope that helps some...

 

[pamela]

Alcohol crosses the blood brain barrier because of its molecular size. Since the liver can only metabolize a small amount of alcohol per hour (approx 0.25 fluid oz) and most mixed drinks contain at least a single shot of about 1.25 oz of liquor, that means you need 3 to 5 hours to metabolize the alcohol in one drink and the toxic effects of it will have that much time to float around your system.

Alcohol is a vasodilator, meaning that your veins are wide open and thus there's more blood nearer to the surface of your skin, so yep, bleeding is a fear factor. This combined with the effects on the CNS (lowered HR Resp and BP) can make excessive alcohol consumption a risky behaviour.

That being said, reasonable and moderate drinking can be fun and allow you to relax when out for an evening with friends. Happy Holidays!

 

[Sunshine susan]

Moderation in every thing, dear heart. I had AOV in 1999 and have at least 1-2-3 glasses of wine most nights. Little beer and almost no hard stuff. My INR is almost never out of range. Only time really was when I had a wee auto accident and had to take a lot of pain meds. Ergo, don't fret what you can and can't "have".....that's the reason you get checked at least monthly.
Susan

 

[aciofalo]

Thanks

Thanks

Thanks for all the replies there were some good ones and others just still refer to moderation....I still want to know what the main concern with alcohol is? GI bleed, falling and hurting yourself, or INR fluctuations

If it is INR fluctuations.... does anyone have evidence that it does affect their INR all the posts I have read in this thread and other threads about alcohol have shown no affect on INR...I can not find any medical research documenting the affect of alcohol on the INR ratio anywhere

Particularly Moo in a previous thread showed with excesive drinking no affect on his INR and others responding in this thread show no affect on their INR

I do not want to excessively drink like Moo did but to rid my fear of having 4 "drinks" on the occasional evening would be a relief

Thanks again

 

[Ross]

Again, the main concern is irritating the stomach lining and causing a bleed. GI bleeds are massive and may well kill you before you can get help, so if your predisposed to ulcers or the like, stay away from alcohol while on Coumdin. INR isn't really even considered. Most peoples never change with Alcohol consumption, but some do and some it actually lowers it. It's more of a person specific thing in that regard. Falling down would only happen if your drunk and if your drinking that much, your asking for trouble. Alcohol consumption is NOT encouraged, but I think most of all of us have and do, have a few on occasion. Some everyday.

You should limit yourself to no more then 2, but hey, I drink 3 and sometimes 4 bloody marys, so you should be fine with 4 so long as your stomach isn't already ulcerated.

Moo was our extremist. He hasn't been around for a long time and I often wonder if he is ok. His style of drinking is the style that is likely to be a problem with the stomach. He is young and not to receptive to the idea that as he gets older, things in your body don't put up with abuse like they did when you were younger.

 

[Bina]

We do have a member who admitted to having a boozing spree on one holiday evening many years ago, and their INR shot up dangerously high. You won't get a definitive answer as to whether it will take you 8 drinks, or 10 drinks, to get your INR up to a very dangerous level; we all metabolize at slightly different rates, and this is why we say that moderation is safest.

 

[dick0236]

I do not want to excessively drink like Moo did but to rid my fear of having 4 "drinks" on the occasional evening would be a relief

Social drinking should cause no problem. Drinking to excess (whatever that is) can cause a problem.... "booze" and "rat poison" is a dangerous combination .....been there, done that and won't do it again .

 

[Lisa in Katy]

Drinking reasonably is okay. Binge drinking is never recommended by anyone with intelligence. There are so many potential dangers and bleeding is certainly one of them, along with making a total fool of yourself!

I do have a few warning bells going off with this thread though. Just because something doesn't affect your INR doesn't mean you aren't more at risk of a bleeding episode. After all, Lovenox doesn't affect your INR, but you certainly wouldn't want to do full dose Lovenox and Warfarin for long.

 

[Ross]

Drinking reasonably is okay. Binge drinking is never recommended by anyone with intelligence. There are so many potential dangers and bleeding is certainly one of them, along with making a total fool of yourself!

I do have a few warning bells going off with this thread though. Just because something doesn't affect your INR doesn't mean you aren't more at risk of a bleeding episode. After all, Lovenox doesn't affect your INR, but you certainly wouldn't want to do full dose Lovenox and Warfarin for long.

Your right about that, but he was asking about INR, so it kind of limited the responses to be about Coumadin.