doc's explanation for staying on lovenox

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Nan

Spoke with the gastroenterologist this afternoon. He says that since he removed 6 polyps that there is a risk of bleeding for about 10 days. If I stay on the Lovenox for these 10 days, then it can be quickly reversed if needed. If I were to go back to the Warfarin now and started to bleed it would be more difficult to reverse.

So, I guess there is a reason. I am not a happy camper. :( The shots hurt (not the injection, but afterward)
 
Following injection of lovenox

Following injection of lovenox

Hi Nan,

Have you tried using an ice pack before and after the Lovenox is injected? Bridging nurse said it might help when I was having them.

Sandra
 
The problems with that logic are:

1. There is no drug that effectively inactivates Lovenox. It can be "quickly" reversed by not giving any for about 12 hours.

2. Warfarin can be inactivated by vitamin K in about 6 hours.

3. The risk of bleeding is probably higher with Lovenox.

4. In an earlier thread I believe that you said that you were to take Lovenox for 10 days and restart warfarin on the 9th day. This will leave you with a dangerously low INR for probably 5 to 7 days after you stop the Lovenox.

5. If you are not likely to bleed at least a quart of blood, then the bleeding is more of a nusiance than a problem.

6. The doctor's reasoning boils down to, "I'd rather that you had a stroke that left you paralyzed for the rest of your life than a little bleeding from your rectum."

7. The doctor's seems to have pulled this one out of the lower end of the intestine.

Get ahold of your PCP or somebody who will use a sensible procedure.
 
Thanks Sandra for the icing suggestion, I am doing that....it would probably be worse without it! And thanks also Cris for the link ...I had indeed read it and it does have great suggestions which I am trying very hard to follow. It hurts more after the shot than during...so the idea of trying to do it more slowly is probably a good one.

And Al, Thanks! I have called my cardio who referred me to my pcp who won't be there til Friday :( .

So I may take the proverbial bull by the horn and re-start my warfarin tonight. This is really scary for me...( I am actually such a ninny that tears are streaming down my face at the moment).I usually follow doctor's orders and don't challenge too much. But I do understand that this is not being handled correctly, and it is my body and my life, so I guess I will have to be brave and "just do it". I home test, so I will be able to know when I can stop the Lovenox on my own.

What would we do without this site and your participation?

Thanks again.
 
allodwick said:
4. In an earlier thread I believe that you said that you were to take Lovenox for 10 days and restart warfarin on the 9th day. This will leave you with a dangerously low INR for probably 5 to 7 days after you stop the Lovenox.

My thought was - these directions show that the doctor doesn't understand Coumadin. He doesn't realize that it will take you several days to build up your INR w/ Coumadin - you are not instantly protected.

Sounds like you already knew what you needed to do, you just needed to feel empowered to do it. Al's good at that!
 
Hi Karlynn, thanks for your words of encouragement! I guess we all need to be empowered sometimes. Good information can help do that!
 
The greatest empowerment I had in doing warfarin was Thanksgiving weekend 1997. My clinic had been in operation three months. I had a referral from a doctor on Wednesday afternoon on a woman with a mechanical valve (fairly new so she didn't know enough to help me). The doc had gotten her INR to 9.2 and was at a loss as to what to do. The only thing that I knew to do was to hold her warfarin for Wed, Thur, (we were closed Fri), Sat and Sun. I was scared to death. All I could think of was that she was going to have a stroke and that my clinic would be closed and I'd be sued out of everything. Guess what, on Monday her INR was still 1.8. She had remained in range almost all that time because her doc had been giving her 5 mg daily and it turned out that she needed only 2 mg daily. She is still on 2 mg daily after all this time. She has probably made over 100 visits to the clinic and now she is helping train my students. We occasionally laugh about how she was just as scared as I was the whole holiday weekend. We've been through amiodarone toxicity, two unsuccessful ablations and who knows what other sorrows and joys. If she occasionally gets an INR of 5 and the student starts to panic, we just laugh. We have stared-down a lot of worse stuff.
 
allodwick said:
The problems with that logic are:

2. Warfarin can be inactivated by vitamin K in about 6 hours.



My husband had an emergency appendectomy while taking Coumadin. To counteract it he was given two units of fresh frozen plasma prior to surgery. He had a severe allergic reaction to the plasma so I think if he had to do it again he would chose 6 hours with vitamin K. I am sympathetic when he is giving himself the Lovenox injections (he also did them for a shoulder surgery) but I have also reminded him several times of an acquaintance of ours - she had to give herself Lovenox injections throughout her pregnancy because she had a clotting problem and was taking Coumadin prior to getting pregnant.
 
HI everyone, just an update. After I made the decision to re-start my warfarin (but hadn't yet taken it) I started to bleed, apparently from one or more of the sites where they had removed a polyp. Ended up hospitalized til today and unable to control when and what I did with my warfarin. On the verge of transfusion, but didn't need it in the end.

Home today and doing OK. Hematocrit now up from 28 to 31 and hopefully will rise more.
The gastro still doesn't want me to re-start Warfarin until Monday, but I spoke with my PCP (and previously my cardio) and she went to bat for me.

I will start tomorrow (well actually the gastro only compromised with Sunday) but I am going to start tomorrow!

This is a catch 22!!!

But knowing you can reverse Warfarin in 6 hours with Vit. K is very re-assuring.
 
Nan, so sorry to hear you had some bleeding. I hope you are on your way to healing now.
 
Glad you are doing better. It does demonstrate that you are more likely to bleed with Lovenox than warfarin.
 
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