Doc gave me a recommendation I didn't expect

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TitanEddie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
51
Location
Nashville, TN
So I am 50 and was sure a mechanical valve would be recommended. To my surprise he recommended a tissue valve. Talked about taking warfarin and other stuff that I already knew. His argument is that with a tissue he could replace it when needed via tavr And the next gen tissue valves would be good for a much longer time by then. The guy is highly recommended and trained at Cleveland. I was leaning that way but he recommended it before I told him. Thoughts? £
 
to me there are no certainties either way. At your age I see no "compelling" argument for a mechanical (unlike if you were 30)

to me the question I'd ask is "are you 100% certain that the valve you give me can be replaced via TAVI"

I'd ask myself is he looking to ensure repeat business or fix you up and hope to never see you again?

I'm uncertain which way you were leaning, but I'd go with your gut. Flip a coin and if the outcome troubles you in the slightest then that's your answer right there.
 
I would ask him the service life projection for the valve he recommends. Then I would ask him "What's next after that?" If he plans re-replacement via TAVI, I would ask him "What if that cannot be done via TAVI?" If you are satisfied with his response to this final question, go for it.

Unless I am mistaken, having a tissue valve implanted at age 50 gives you a high likelihood of needing another replacement at some point. As long as you are comfortable with the way this second replacement will be done, you're probably OK. But. . . if you want to absolutely minimize the odds of ever needing a re-operation (still no guarantees, but best odds), then I would discuss a mechanical valve with him. If you are not comfortable with his discussion, then I'd consult another surgeon.

BTW, I have a tissue valve, but mine was implanted at age 63, which lowers my odds of needing another replacement considerably.
 
Of course, the decision is yours but I would go for a tissue valve at age 50.
It is all opinion and none of us have exact data as the new generation of valves are too young to know longevity.
It seems your surgeon is well trained and experienced and you have to evaluate how much you value his recommendation.
All best wishes.
 
Going with the tissue. Was leaning that way and researched his recommendation and feel good about it. Couple of more days of tests and will get my date. Won't be long now.
 
I just went in for my yearly echo last week and got talking to the doc....I was surprised to hear her say that they are seeing more and more tissue valves being put into 'younger' people - I'm also 50 and had my surgery at 46 - now that's young I know, but I went tissue. I however didn't really put much thought into it - I had an aneurysm that I was much more concerned about - and I didn't know about this site for input. But, I'm super happy with the results so far. Glad you made your decision, I think it's one of those things that you go into knowing that whatever you choose is better than what you got. BTW - I also see a surgeon every other year for an MRI - he reminds me that 'we're going to be doing this thing again' and I'm okay with that - I just try to stay in really good shape! All the best to you!!!
 
Three weeks ago, I received the opposite recommendation from a "facitlity of excellence." I am 62 and both the cardiologist and the surgeon recommended I go with a mechanical valve.( Of course exactly one year ago another "faciltiy of excellence" recommended bio-prothesis/bovine. ) The rational, according to them, is that I have a "physiologic age" which is less than my biologic age IE, I exercise regularly and am in relatively good shape for a 62 year old female. I have to say I was floored by this because I have been reading all I can (waiting room 15 years) and visiting this site regularly since 2012 and all I have gleaned pointed to a tissue valve for those over 60 and sometimes even younger. Being much relieved that the choice-of-valve decision was one I would not have to make, I ignored the whole topic. So now I am trying to play catch up. In my opinion, I am moderately active, no athlete, but workout pretty regularly. They said they thought I would wear out a tissue valve too rapidly. So when I read that they are putting more tissue valves in younger and younger pts. I am beyond confused at this point (about more than just valve choice but more about that later.) I am not sure how to use the site yet so forgive me my missteps. I had been previously registered as McBon before they revamped the site. This is my first post on the new one. Thanks for alll the insights you've given me over the years. You are all so generous.
 
Hi

Bonbet;n856062 said:
. I am beyond confused at this point (about more than just valve choice but more about that later.) I am not sure how to use the site yet so forgive me my missteps. I had been previously registered as McBon before they revamped the site. This is my first post on the new one. Thanks for alll the insights you've given me over the years. You are all so generous.

Well I am not sure I can make a complex choice simple, but firstly I will say that all choices have positives and negatives, and that there is really no wrong choice. It depends in how you view life.

The blog post of mine below is how I see life.
http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2014...r-choices.html

In that post I also link to this presentaction by a senior surgeon at the mayo

http://mayo.img.entriq.net/htm/MayoP...articleID=4071

Feel free to ask me to clarify any of my blog posts.

Best wishes
 
Thanks, Pellicle. I have read your blog post and appreciated your detailed deconstruction of the data although I had to read through a few times to get it.
The second link does not open for me. Although I am interested in seeing it.

I wonder what folks think of this article: Controversies in Cardiovascular Medicine
Selection of Aortic Valve Prostheses: Contemporary Reappraisal of Mechanical Versus Biologic Valve Substitutes
Rakesh M. Suri, MD, DPhil; Hartzell V. Schaff, MD
Maybe it has already been discussed in a different thread? Does anyone have other articles that might contribute to this decision making process?
I have been looking for studies that compare the mech to bio and not just the morbity and failure, but the incidence of events like embolic and hemorrhagic strokes, infection etc. Thanks, Bon
 
Hi

Bonbet;n856124 said:
The second link does not open for me. Although I am interested in seeing it.

the link is to a flash player, so you can't open it from a Google Chrome, tablet or a phone ... on Firefox on a PC it opens but gives a warning that you need to enable flash player. If you click OK it plays

grab a cup of coffee and a sandwich and be prepared to hit pause to ponder and or take notes. He covers a lot of ground, and covers many of your questions

:)
 
From the Controversies article, this struck a cord, since it has been my own personal opinion: "[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, Arial, Lucida Grande, Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]A more plausible explanation for improved survival of patients with mechanical valves is, by contrast, the cumulative hemodynamic consequence of living with a degenerating bioprosthesis in place. Although primary tissue failure of bioprostheses may progress rapidly, some patients endure months or years of exposure to hemodynamically significant valvular regurgitation, stenosis, or both before critical prosthetic failure is identified and replacement is advised." My natural valve took 55 years to fail and there is a toll on the heart and cardovascular system that effects your physical ability and is visible by imaging. With a bioprothesis, you do it all over again.[/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, Arial, Lucida Grande, Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]I have a mechanical and chose it for two main reasons. First, I did not want a reoperation because of the trauma, the cost in money, time and to family. My career is not secure, so health insurance is not a given. Second, I did not want to suffer through valve degradation until I reached a statistical possibility of "sudden death syndrome" before the medical establishment decided it was time to replace the failing bio-valve. Been there, done that, didn't want to do it again. The information I got showed me that there is no good data to indicate for an individual that your bioprothesis would last any set period of time at my age of 55. There are people on this forum where it lasted 10-20 years and others less than 5. [/FONT]
 
I have read all of the info and did before my decision. I will give my reasons for a tissue valve as just that my reasons. I would not want in any way to presume I am an expert on the topic as each should do their research and listen to their professionals.
I am a bit of an adrenaline junkie, always have been. My kids are now grown and there is a lot I want to do now that they are independent that I have been putting off. I want to get certified for scuba and skydiving. I want to travel and some of the places I want to go is in third world countries. I want to zip line in Costa Rica, Shark cage at some point, surf in Australia, play softball until I just can't anymore. For me the thinking on the Warfarin was two fold. If I take a year long trip getting the drugs and doing the testing even if self testing would be a challenge at best. If there was a problem how do I get help from someone that has been tracking my INR and history if I am in the Dominican Republic, if one of my adventures ends in a substantial injury do I want a doctor in a third world country that may not have experience in someone that could have a bleeding problem working on me?
Mechanical makes sense, I understand the reasons for it. New research is leaning toward less and less warfarin and there are studies underway that are looking at only aspirin in some of them. But, for me, for now the tissue valve just makes sense. Again, my opinion only for my life. Hoping the next gen tissue valve plus advances in TAVR/TAVI makes the next time easier but if not I am still comfortable with my decision.
 
TitanEddie, my discussion, and my questions, were in no way meant to detract from your decision. I envy you your confidence, and decisiveness. With so many variables there is no right or wrong decision, only what is best for each personal situation. It is a very personal decision and I have yet to decide. I just want to hear as much as I can on all sides. You make a very good case. I have had exact opposite recommendations from two sets of Drs. whom are excellent and reputable. It's a dilemma.
Thanks, Pellicle, I did get to view the link on a different computer and it was compelling. Of course it was MC that recommended mech and now I can see why.
And Tom, I totally agree. I have been on a slow devolution now for a number of years and the decision of when to operate isn't as simple as I thought it would be.
Bonbet
 
Hi Eddie

TitanEddie;n856155 said:
.... I will give my reasons for a tissue valve as just that my reasons. I would not want in any way to presume I am an expert on the topic as each should do their research and listen to their professionals.

I didn't think anyone was asking you to justify your decision. Your decision is yours alone. I am sure that all of us here respect that. I hope that you did not feel that the discussions with Bonbet and others implied you needed to support your decision.

Best Wishes
 
Nope, for those making the decision I'm just offering up a reason someone might go with a tissue even though the long term outcome is usually better with a mechanical.
 
hi titan, don't look back just forward you have made your choice for YOU, Good luck and am sure you will do fine, its an old coconut about the choice and to me its like people choosing between 2 cars, some will like one others the other one, get the one you want lol
 
Bonbet, I read where you're having difficulties navigating the forum, but if you started a new thread I think you would garner more reads and probably more replies (the subject of valve choice typically does). If you're having trouble starting a new thread, I would be glad to help explain the process.
 
This is my first post as I will be getting my bicuspid aortic valve replaced next month as soon as I'm done getting married and enjoying my honeymoon. I'm only 35 and asymptomatic but for whatever reason my regurgitation worsened affecting my heart so time to get it replaced a couple decades before I thought I'd have to consider it. I just met with the surgeon this morning and I'll be getting a mechanical valve due to my age and activity level. TitanEddie, your post was interesting to me as I travel for several weeks at a time to developing countries as part of my job so being on warfarin does concern me. I'm not sure if I'll limit which countries I go to or not in the future but hope I'll be fine with home testing while traveling. I did a lot of researching and it seems mechanical is probably the best way for me to go as I'd likely end up with multiple replacements with tissue valves. A magic 8 ball on the future of pharmaceutical vs valve research and progress would be great, but with what I know right now, mechanical valve it is for me.
 
katkarn101;n856171 said:
I'm only 35.......... .

At your age I agree that mechanical is the logical choice. I got mine at 31 and have never regretted my choice (although tissue valves where not a viable option at the time of my surgery). I suppose warfarin has caused me not to do a few things........but none of the things that I really wanted to do. With the ability to self-test while in a problematic country warfarin management should not be difficult. Of more concern would be the diseases or infections you may be exposed to.......but that will be a concern with mechanical or tissue.
 

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