Dehydration??

[M&M]

Hi All, well I thought I would ask the 'been there, done that' persons on this question and I think you all fit that scenario.

Well, I've noticed since my MV replacement surgery that when I workout - I sweat a great deal 'more'. Today I did 6 miles - I stopped at the store at on the way back which was the 3 mile mark and I bought a "large" bottle of water and continued to finish my workout and as I hit the 5 mile mark I started getting the 'chills' and some dizzyness and just plain walking crooked -I may have gotten dehydrated. I could be wrong - maybe I drank too much water !!

When you exercise how much water do you generally drink? How do you carry this water 'around' as your walking/jogging/running. I know there are several devices to hold water - but I don't like anything around my waist so I'm wondering what am I going to do when I start to do some 'real' distance walk/jogs. I know its going to take about a year to get fully back in shape - but this possible dehydration could be a big obstacle if I don't find a solution.

Will the dehydration get less as I get more 'fit' and perhaps as time goes on.. it will go 'away'..

Thanks
Runner (Marilyn)

 

[tommy]

Marilyn,

Sounds like you are doing great. Glad to hear you are active.

Dizzyness and wobble don't sound good. Call your doctor and give him your symptoms. Be sure that nothing else is going on.

Regardless what the doctor says, I suggest slowing your pace way down until this (and the heat) passes. For example, in 80-85 heat, Jeff Galloway suggests adding 3 minutes to your mile pace to yield the same exertion level on your body. Jeff has run over 110 marathons and written several books. I'm using his marathon training for my next one.

Everyone's "sweat rate" is different. The latest Runner's World magazine had an article on this. Your sweat is decreased by being fitter - less exertion. Your sweat rate is raised by carrying extra natural "insulation" (fat) - higher body temperature.

Since I didn't run before AVR, I cannot comment if that is a factor. I can't imagine that it is.

For runs longer than 6 miles, I carry a 16 oz. water bottle on a waist band. I got the kind that stows the bottle in the back at an angle (makes it easier to grab it than if it were straight vertical). I plan my routes so that I can refill the bottle every 5-6 miles. For runs longer than 90 minutes, I use Gatorade (half strength). On those days, I use my house as a refill station (spot a cooler outside for quick exchange)

There are other fuel belts that have pouches for multiple smaller bottles to avoid sloshing. I got used to my waist band quickly. But it is more comfortable when the bottle is empty.

I drink 3-4 ounces per mile in warm weather. I think I would drink more if I carried it. For example, I drank closer to 8 ounces per mile at my marathon (temps 70-85). In cooler weather I drank a lot less. At my marathon the temps started at about 70 and finished at about 85.

At temps over 85, I wait for another day. Around here that means I have to start very early in the day during the summer

On the other hand, drinking too much water is dangerous as well. Replenshing electrolytes is important also.

Try weighing yourself before and after you run. That will tell you is you gained or lost water weight. Literature says that you should not lose more than 2% body weight or your performance will drop off considerably. You may also take your temperature. I've never done this, but would be curious.

Hope this helps.

 

[M&M]

Thanks Tom

Thanks Tom

Hi Tom, I'm sorry on my six mile workout - I did a 15:00 minute mile FAST WALK - no running. But I'm glad to hear that with the heat can effect your pace that much !!

No, I'm going slow and I only do what's comfortable - I just got 'stuck' on the way home and had no alternative but to get home to get some 'more' water. It felt rather cool when I left - but obviously I was wrong - or the humidity really rolled in quickly. In the ole days - RUNNING 6 miles was nothing.. Now I'm fast walking and I'm amazed at how 'weak' my legs are.

But it hasn't been very long and I'm glad that I was able to do it at all.

I think I might try carrying water on me - thanks for your suggestion. I'm not sure I can do the water carry on a belt as I chaffe very easily. Do you ever find it chaffes you? Even some athletic bras chaffe me really bad and I have to put ointment on before I go out. I guess I have tender skin.

Taking it slower next time - I just really wondered if these 'replacement valves' had an effect on our workouts as far as sweating.

Happy Trails
Runner (Marilyn)

 

[tobagotwo]

Runner, I admire the way you've worked to achieve and maintain your fitness after surgery. Some days (maybe most days), that pace and distance is likely fine. But at this point, most of us expect some other days when things won't quite gel.

Your valve was replaced on May 24th this year - not quite two months ago. It doesn't seem like you lack fitness as much as adequate time for recovery.

It's very hot and humid right now, which is tough on anyone. I'll outwalk or match anyone distance-for-distance walking when the temperature's seventy or below. Anywhere over the low eighties, and I'm a puddle.

And you're still in recovery - pretty early in recovery, in fact. You are still in the good-days-so-so-days recovery timeframe. Some days the sky's the limit. Others, you can reach the limit on the way to brushing your teeth. Your body still has a lot of catching up to do from that surgery. You're not really at the gas 'n' go stage, yet.

So, next time you might want to listen to your body before you actually start to wobble into the car lane. The mind matters, but not everything is mind over matter.

Best wishes,

 

[Christina L]

Marilyn,

I am in awe of you.

I think I was still watching a lot of the Food Network at two months post surgery by "fast walking" to the TV.

Just don't over do it!!

Christina L.

 

[Granbonny]

Marilyn

Marilyn

How did you feel after you got back home? Were you still dizzy, ect. or did it pass?..I walk everyday at our community center at 11 a.m. ..Only 1 mile..but there is a water fountain at the end of my walk. My hubby and I fill empty small water bottles and keep them in our Tracker.....With the heat in the South.even walking across parking lots, ect. We are thirsty...I just gave my dog a little walk..and came in sweating. He doesn't like the heat either... I think muscle crampness is one sign of dehydration.. I hate the fact that high school football practice starts in August in the south. Read every year of a young man kneeling over and dying in the heat. ...Are you only meds? Maybe it could have been one of them Any whoo (as anna says)..Take care..Bonnie

 

[M&M]

Hi, I'm sorry - I didn't want to post about my dehydration at first - as I wasn't sure if some might think I had done to much. It was very cooool weather when I started my walk. It got extremely humid on the way back home. I also want to say today was the 'most' I've done since my surgery - this is not an everyday ocurrance. I certainly didn't want to challenge anyone to match me.. No, quite the contrary. I normally do 3 miles every other day. I'm going slowly - very slowly - but I wanted to get one long walk in and build some endurance. Today was probably not a good day. I'll be more careful what days I pick next time. Or stick to the 'club' and workout in the air conditioner. Its boring on the treadmill - but coooler.

Thanks for asking me how - I feel - and I want you to know I feel fine - and I did shortly thereafter my workout when I got home - but I knew I had experienced alittle dehydration symptoms - I very seldom ever felt this 'before' my surgery. SO, it was apparent at the end of my walk - that something had not been 'normal' and I wanted to get home and get some more water into me. I was very surprised I felt any 'symptoms'. As I said: I hardly 'ever' had these symptoms in the past - but I do sweat alot more since my surgery.

Also, truth be told - I wasn't going to say anything - as I wasn't sure I should say anything - my "surgeon" told me on my last visit with him that I would find myself 'dehydrating' alot quicker with a mechanical valve. I was hoping to find others who found similar symptoms. I noticed it before I even had my appt with him - that even walking a short distance I sweated alot more and started to carry water back then. But I was really wondering if this was a temporary situation. I guess not. Having worked out for many years -I tend to notice the slightest 'difference' in my body reaction to my workouts. I can tell if my legs are getting enough oxygen - I can tell if my heart beats are abnormal - I can tell if my breathing is 'harder' than expected for my workout - it was these same traits that I realized things were not 'normal' and I was diagnosed needing surgery - due to symptoms. As I had actually 'stopped' working out all together before my surgery..

If anyone else has found this to be the same from their workouts - I wonder whether it goes away with time.

Since this is all 'new' to me - I was wondering if others over the years have noticed more sweating after surgery than normal. My husband wonders if its not the mechanical valve that is actually doing it - or if its the coumadin !!!!

Anybody heard of this???

Thanks
Runner (Marilyn)

 

[Granbonny]

Marilyn

Marilyn

I have never heard of anyone saying that coumadin made them sweat...Just posts from members that they had night sweats..for several weeks after surgery.........Maybe it is just that you are only 2 months post-op and the drugs that were given to you in hospital? I dunno? ..You did not mention in your last post if you are on any other medicines? Like..beta-blockers, ect. Maybe someone who takes them might know?..I only take coumadin but Hubby takes Coreg and Hyzaar..and never sweats..and the man works like a horse.. Will be age 74 this Oct...Has my kitchen torn apart now..remodeling.. Never slows down..but he always has water when he is working outside..He sat outside last few days in heat..putting a sand mixture in between cracks in sidewalk. Kept his Water jug with him..Comes inside..and I never see any sign that he has been sweating...I can walk the dog in middle of day for a block..and come home hot..but not really sweating..Maybe someone will come in and give more info..Take it easy...Be glad you don't live in Ga., Ala . or Fla..Bonnie

 

[tobagotwo]

Marilyn, I don't think you're generally overdoing it, and I didn't do a very good job of wording the post, if that's the way it came out.

My cardio was exasperated with me for walking five miles at three weeks and visiting his office to ask questions without a ride. I know how it feels for someone to tell you you're overdoing, when you don't believe that you are. It undermines the confidence that you want to get back. If I seemed to do that, I apologize.

Fortunately, my surgeon's office agreed with me, as long as I was comfortable with it. And I agree with you, as long as you are comfortable with it. (Of course, this time, you weren't... )

What you may not have, that you're used to counting on, is your second wind. Early on in recovery, you just don't have one. When you use up your skeletal energy, it doesn't fall through to your core energy: it's just gone. I found that shocking.

I'm going to log off, now ,as I can't add anything significant to the discussion about sweating, dehydration, and Coumadin. However, I wouldn't leave out your early stage of recovery as a causative factor, whatever the overall response may be.

Very best wishes,

 

[M&M]

Thanks Bonnie for some helpful information. Yes, the south is very hot. I'm glad you don't experience this intense sweating. I do take other meds - but nothing I didn't take before my surgery - as a matter of fact the only new med has been my coumadin. But, I had noticed it shortly after I started to walk alittle faster - even in the air conditioned - I just sweat alot more and of course that means - I've got to replenish it.

Thanks Bob, I'm glad your not angry about my workout. As I read your post - I do remember thinking around the 3.5 mile mark to the 4 mile mark where I felt like I had hit the 'wall' and I didn't think I had enough energy to get past it. But I walked alittle slower and kept the same pace I did eventually get a second wind but it only lasted about a mile.

It just felt awesome to be able to get outside and do a workout. I'd been wanting to do a 6 mile walk for weeks - its actually 6 miles from my house to our grammar school and I've done that course a million times - its somewhat hilly and challenging. I'm rather please I finished it - even if it was just a walk. After all you need to take the baby steps before you can jog and then run and I felt like I got some good baby steps in. 3.5 more weeks and I can start to run and race - although I'm going to be able to run - I'm sure it will be a light jog - and I'm not planning on doing any 'real' racing till the middle of September when it gets cooler. My first race is a 5 miler on the beach - and I'm sure it will be cool. I've done it the last 3 years and its always nice weather with a nice breeze and they have lots of water stops. I may walk a race or two before then -just to get the butterflies out of my stomach.

I still think there's something related to this mechanical valve or coumadin that is causing this profuse sweating - I noticed it from the very start of my rehab. IF there's one thing I know its 'how' my body is reacting to my level of exercise. I know every little sign of what's coming down the pike and how I can offset it. Now all I need to do is find something that 'works' to offset this sweat. When I first got progammed on my ICD for exercise - I could tell the hills and stairs were going awful - as I could not breath at all. The hills really ruined my race time. SO after about 6 mos of searching for an answer I was finally told by a company 'rep' that the machine does not comprehend the up and down motion - therefore it doesn't give you your 'extra' needed heart beats to do this level of exertion.. OOOOhhh now I get it... :-( Thanks for the info. It sure explains alot.. SO what I did - as the rep suggested - was to warm up the machine - run alittle to get the machine to start registering flat movement and then run up the stairs.. It worked if the stairs weren't to many or the hills to steep.

Right now - my electrician tells me I'm beating on my 'own' - Yes, my heart is beating on its own - all the time - right now - it hasn't done that in years. I was always "paced" a certain percentage. Right now - I'm not - my electrician doc are very excited and really thinks by getting this valve replaced it may help alot in preventing more tacycardias and arrhythmias with my electrical system.

We shall see - My INR is up one week and then down the next and then up and then down - every week its changing. I was so use to eating a heart healthy diet for years - salads, green veggies - I love broccoli, spinach, brussel sprouts and I love summer squash (that's yellow) what the heck is that doing on the list !!! Anyways, I'm learning more and more how to control this with diet. I just found out yesterday that licorice effects our levels - I've been munching on licorice for the past few weeks ad never gave it a thought - its RED !!! and then fried onions - I love fried onions.. Yokes in eggs too - I had an egg salad sandwich last week - anyways I came in on my INR at 1.6 this week !!! So, I really started to think - mmmm what did I eat.. Not good.. I think I can do better.. Its not that I intend to totally knock it out of my diet - but I surely can watch how much I intake - if I know it effects it. The other day I sat down and wrote down all the things I CAN 'eat' and I'll take that to the grocery store and buy those items - then I don't think about my old items I use to buy - I'll have a list of just the ones I can buy. Its much easier to shop that way.

My husband and I are going to Montreal this weekend - they have very gooood food up there. They may use olive oil - so I may need to watch out for that. That's another thing we used at home to - olive oil. Actually, I discovered we at quite a bit of Vitamin K. But like I said - I don't intend on stopping it completely - just cut it down and hopefully get my INR up there without more meds.

It seems my coumadin clinic lady is tooo busy to call me each week to give me instructions on how to change my doseage. I called her last week - and she said - I was going to call you - if you had given me a chance. Which it had been two days since my test - anyways she was very rude to me and so I just said - Fine, if you don't have the time then I'll take care of this myself - don't worry - she said: are you sure that's ok - I said; sure - well if you have any trouble you can call me. Right like I'm going to call you and get my head taken off.. I don't think so. The place I go to get my blood taken - there is a coumadin nurse there as well - and she's very nice -so I think she's going to be helpful. Its just that my cardiologist wanted my regular doctors office to handle it - so they would know what meds I was on and so forth and I agree whole heartedly that I wanted them to do it to. But I'll be darned if I call every week and get my head taken off. I don't need that aggrevation - but on my next appt with my cardiologist - I will tell him about this lady. Everyone else is so nice there - except the coumadin clinic people tend to 'act' like they're 'god' and how everyone is suppose to suck up to them - well even the docs and the surgeon didn't act that way. I don't know why they think they can. They make me feel like I'm a big 'bother' and I'm only doing what I'm suppose to do. Its a wonderful hospital - just an awful coumadin clinic. I should probably call my cardiologist and tell him and get someone to help me up there - but I hate to sound like I'm complaining and I didn't think they're doseage was all that great - as I tended to go up and down with them. I think its my diet and if I can get that consistent then I can get my INR consistent. SO we'll see and I'll try it a couple weeks and see how it goes. They are suppose to be trying to get me a home monitoring kit - and if they do that - then they will have to help me doseage my meds - as I won't have any other coumadin nurse to help me.

Well, as usual I wrote a 'book' - thanks everyone for all your input and suggestions. I'm going to get to the bottom of this sweat and find out how I can offset it so I can still do my distance runs without dehydration and without carrying a jug of water. I'm sure there's something I could do to help me.

Happy Trails
Runner (Marilyn)

 

[epstns]

Hi Runner,

I'm catching this thread late in its development, but wanted to comment on heavy sweating. I have moderate aortic stenosis, and haven't yet had the valve replaced. I've been a "recreational" jogger for 20+ years, averaging 15 to 20 miles per week. Used to run 7:30 miles, now slowed to 9:00 (well, I'm 56 and have this valve thing going on. . . ). I've always perspired heavily during exercise but have noticed in the past couple of years it has worsened, to the point that after 4 miles on a treadmill, my shirt is so soaked that I can wring water out of it. I've asked my cardio about this, and he just passes it off that ". . . everyone sweats at a different rate. Just don't get dehydrated. If your run doesn't feel good, stop it and if it stays "bad" for more than a couple of days, call me."

So, he's not worried. I often wonder if the restricted flow of my valve, and in your case possibly the limited flow of the mech valve, may have something to do with it.

Glad you're doing so well that you're out enjoying a workout so soon, though!

 

[tommy]

Marilyn,

I'll try to keep an open mind on a link between valve replacements (or coumadin) and increased sweating.

Poor responses by coumadin clinics is inexcusable. Of all people, they know the score. Rudeness is just so unnecessary. I'll put up with someone that is competent and a little rough around the edges. But 2 strikes? Yikes!

I ran 10k (6.2 miles) this morning in 1 hour. This is about par for me in this heat. It was about 75F-80F during the run. I weighed myself before and after. Ran with no water. Lost 3 lbs of water weight. Base on the 2% rule, I was close to the edge of significant drop in performance. This verifies my own rule about carrying water for runs over 6 miles.

 

[ccrawford]

Marilyn - since my surgery (April 03) I'm very sensitive to dehydration and never go anywhere without my water bottle. That does not keep me from being active and I helped my nephew last week for three days clearing downed trees in his yard from a storm, but I drank a lot of water continuosly. If I don't,I get dizzy, and may also have visual disturbances. Never get caught in a remote place without water !!!!! Chris

 

[Mark Wagner]

Hi Marilyn,
Very good advice from all the above; and from what I have read in running magazines. Tom, is right on the mark. I also wear a belt with four 6 ounce running flasks, filled with gatorade or poweraid. Anything over 6 miles, I run with the belt. I divide my distance by 4, and at those points I down 6 ounces. It is common to be chilled after a run, especially if you have run in high heat. If I remember right, it is the onstage of hypothermia in the reverse somewhat. (maybe someone else can verify that, or correct me if I am wrong) That is why space blankets are passed out after a marathon. (Like that cool foil one I am wearing in my picture! ) 6 miles is not a rule ... that is up to the individual and there personal condition. It just so happens Tom and I both use that as a guide line. DO NOT drink too much water, but drink a sports drink that replaces your salt and sweat outake. Drinking too much water alone can be dangerous, especially for women.
As far as sweating goes, I sweat about the same as before my surgery. I have always been a heavy sweater when I am working out, remain so now.

Good job Marilyn. Your doing awesome!!

Mark

 

[M&M]

Thanks you guys - Your the BEST

Thanks you guys - Your the BEST

Hi Tom, Steve, Crawford and Mark, goodness just hearing that you guys face the 'same' symptoms just confirms that if you can find ways to overcome this - then I know I can. I can just taste the salt in my sweat - and that's very unusual for me. I think its the low sodium that gave me that dizzy and unstable feeling. I've got to learn to carry the water and find a way to replenish my sodium. I've thought about trying the gatorades - I'm not sure they would agree with my 'high' body temperature and my sensitive stomach - bit I did a google search on running and sodium and I found many who have the same problem. I read somewhere that gatorade has the same amount of sodium as 'one' slice of bread - which isn't a whole lot. I should have asked my surgeon - so what can I do to offset this "dehydration" - I was just hoping it would go away as I became more physically fit - obviously its getting worse with more intensity and the longer distance I do.

It feels so good to know that I'm not alone and along with what my surgeon said - that others experience it as well. Not that I'm happy that you do experience it - but that its "normal" and carrying water - should help me to continue with my running. I get so afraid of losing my ability to run. I don't have to be fast - although there is this one woman I would like to kick her butt - but thats another story - I've always wanted to kick her butt for 'many, many' years - if I actually did - then I'd have no goal to keep me going. She'll slow down one of these days and when she does - she's going to be eating my dust... She always says: well Marilyn 'what happened' your time was slower - so did you WALK !!! Can you believe it - she asks me if I 'walked' and I truly do some walking during the race - but mostly I run with small steps - but to rub it in my face. It wasn't so long ago - she was afraid that I was going to beat her - and kept saying: Marilyn you almost beat me - what are you doing for workouts !!! You just wait - the day I beat her (and like I said - I came very close several times) I'm going to ask her if SHE WALKED !!! She mostly does 5k's and just did one 8k !!! She's never even done a half marathon - but she thinks she's so hot. The only reason she get's first, second or third place in a race is because noone else showed up. I mean its hard not to come in first - when your the only one in that 50's age category !! Heck I could do that and I have a heart condition - and I'm in the 40's age group - and I still took 1st and 2nd place. I can't wait till next year when I hit my 50's age group - I just have to show up and I would win in some races.

I do get alittle competitive when I'm hanging around her -- but I'm really, really so happy to just be out there running with my some of my non-competitive friends - I belong to a running club and they are so supportive - no matter how fast or slow you are - they cheer you to just finish and its such an awesome accomplishement to get a 'finishing' medal to give to my awesome doctors. For without them - none of this would be possible - It shouldn't be medically possible to do what I do and yet I do. I have such hopes for my future running and it feels good to hear about others who run long distance with these mechanical devices. I've been rather worried as now I have 'two' devices and sometimes I feel twice as many small 'obstacles' but when I do well - I feel 'twice' the reward - its really not easy at times and yet I do it. Like Nike says: Just do it !!! You are all such an inspiration to me - and I've told all my doctors about you - look others can do it and I'm going to continue to keep doing it. My doctors are "very supportive" but I'm not sure they think its possible - although they encourage me - they've only met one or two other heart patients who run - as I'm sure you've run into the same with your doctors. I can't wait to give my surgeon my medals.. I just wish I was there to see the smile on his face - so he knows how wonderful he has made my quality of life.

I'm also very sad to report - I can feel my shortness of breath when I get excited - its the same as before my surgery - only its alot less 'brief' but its there. I can also at times feel it when I walk uphill every so often. So, I don't think my arrhythmia's are gone !! - but my electrician was so optimistic with this new valve - I don't have the heart to tell him they're small but 'they're back' I just hope they go away and they don't get any worse - as they are really minor at this stage - but its only been 8 weeks postop. I told my husband :-( but I think he's hoping they will go away as the heeling process continues. They don't bother me mentally - just alittle disappointing and frustrating. I'm very sad when I get this shortness of breath as its so early since my surgery and yet I know I'm very lucky - the worse that can happen is my tachys will flare back up again and my electrician doc will need to 'increase' my anti-arrhythmic drugs and reprogram my ICD - and once again the hills and stairs will be difficult to handle - I wish technology would address this lack of 'programming feature' and I wish mostly that when I get excited and my adrenaline is pumping that I can breath. I'm afraid I will lose that as they (tachys) get more progressed. I just don't have the heart to tell others - THEY'RE BACK !!! I hope I'm wrong - it was so quiet for last few weeks I read somewhere that it can take up to a year for the healing process to finish - and when it does - so does your electrical problems - as I read that sometimes 1% leakage can still take place up until till your one year mark.

So I'm hopeing it will go away in time. Kind of like the wicked 'sweating'. I will be going back to work soon and I dread facing the 'rat' race and this INR situation and lack of support from my coumadin clinic.. My Low INR and a brief shortness of breath - I've handled so many disappointments in the past -but I swear - give me one more 'internal' device and that's it -I'm going to 'give up' and 'give in'. I just don't think I can take one more device - and my hopes of breathing better forever - to only have it dashed as the mos go by. Its just so disappointing.

Thanks for letting me 'vent' - it feels good to get it off my shoulders - and to just talk to others - who I think can relate to my frustration. I know it will get "better" as time goes on. I just know it will - its got to. I can't stand the thought of gasping for air anymore. Wish me LUCK and I'll keep my fingers crossed that I will tell you guys in a couple weeks - THEY'RE GONE - THEY ARE ALL GONE - NO MORE TACHYS !!! Thanks Guys for listening. But most of all thanks for your much needed support..

Your the BEST
Runner (Marilyn, Dick and Judy)

 

[tommy]

I ran 5 miles this morning in 80F and 90 humidity. Lost 4 lbs water weight. Need to get out earlier. Off to softball game this evening. Packing Gatorade.