Daycare question:

[Dennis S]

This not a heart-health question, but it is a "heartstrings" question. I have posted in the past about my daughter Stephanie, and grand-daughter, Ellie. Little Ellie is very slim-75% in height & 5% in weight. (Her Dr. saya that is not a problem.) I got the following from Stephanie today, and I have so much respect for the wisdom of so many of you, that I thought I would seek out your opinions as to what would be best to do.

So, I'm at Starbucks, sipping a latte, enjoying free internet. Only instead of enjoying my time here, I'm typing away about Ellie. Ok, I clearly need advice. It's our second day at the daycare. I was there for a hour yesterday morning and an hour this morning. I'm overall very happy with how the place is run and how the kids are treated/cared for. However, I have an issue and I'd love some advice/suggestions on the best way to deal with it.

There's this boy in Ellie's class named Axel. In the two hours I have been in the room, I have seem him push Ellie down on the ground three times and shove her once. He has pushed another little girl down 3-4 times and pulled another little girl's hair twice. He sent this second girl flying by running into her (on purpose). She didn't just hit the ground, like she got knocked over. She actually flew a little bit before she hit the ground. In my opinion, the teachers were actually working to avoid this. They clearly know this kid is a problem and keep an eye on him but there is breakfast, diapers to change, and so on. There are only two teachers and 7-8 kids in the room. Ellie and one other girl (Emma) are both a lot smaller than this boy (he probably weighs 30-35 lbs) and he has no trouble knocking them over.

This boy is not leaving Ellie's room any time soon. Two of the bigger boys are, but not Axel. Also, the teachers don't seem to do much ("Axel, no" and then pick up the kid who is crying), but I'm not sure how much they can do. At one point, he started to knock Ellie over right in front of me and I raised my voice at him, which stopped him. As a point of comparison, I saw one other boy and one other girl do something bad (like push or forcefully take a toy from someone) the entire time I was there.

I had a long talk with the secretary at the daycare who basically told me to speak up and say something. I feel a bit awkward making waves on my second day, but since it deals with Ellie, not nearly as awkward as I might normally.

I'm not overreacting, right? I mean, I'm okay with a little pushing/shoving/biting and I'm sure Ellie will do her share. But that much in such a short time seems like a problem to me. Any ideas on how I approach the director? Anyone know what options are available to daycares for discipline? I'm guessing they are limited by federal law, but I'm not too sure how.

 

[Emma]

Really feel for your daughter - anything involving the safety of our children is always going to hurt us.

I'm a teacher over here and as a teacher, were that to be happening in a class of mine (i teach 5 year olds) I would certainly not stand for any of it and the child would recieve a time out, a firm warning and a removal from the situation. If it continued I would send them to the head teacher, make them miss the activities they enjoy for a set period of time and call their parents in for a meeting too.

As a parent knowing the system (as it is over here so unsure if it relates the same to the US) I would complain in writing as nothing is dealt with properly if not written down. I would ask for a copy of their behaviour policy too as this will state how they deal with poor behaviour and I would insist that if they havent done so already, that they have the offending childs parents in and have firm words with them too about unacceptable behaviour so they can deal with it too, as a lot of this issues are allowed to happen in the homes by some parents so the children think it ok to carry them into other environments - which it most definately is not.

So to sum up as I tend to waffle I know. I would...

- complain in writing
- ask for their behaviour policy to check they are following how they have set out they will deal with bad behaviour
- check the childs parents are aware of the bad behaviour in pre school
- if necessary ask for a meeting with the nursery and explain you are extremely concerned Ellie could be hurt and that you will have to consider removing her if you don't see some positive changes occuring.

Hope this helps a bit and things get better there soon as that is sooo not acceptable even at that very young age (actually - ESPECIALLY at that young age)

Love Emma
xxx

 

[Nancy]

My immediate reaction is if that boy was doing this with a parent present, and the teachers were doing nothing to protect your child, I would run out the door with child in my arms.

I cannot imagine what would be going on when you weren't present.

The worst thing is the secretary of the place was essentialy telling you to take care of it yourself.

No matter how much you might like the place on face value, please remember that actions speak louder than words, and this does not seem to be a safe place for children.

And I would make sure you got any deposits back, employing any friendly attorney you might know

It only takes one moment of unguarded dangerous behavior to make a lifetime of grief. Just ask Ross about his son.

Children are too precious to have someone uncaring taking care of them.

 

[Phyllis]

Dennis,
Last year my son and daughter-in-law had a similar problem in a kindergarten class that my granddaughter attended at a private school. The parents banded together and pressured the school to take action (along with threats of atty. involvement). There were school meetings of administration and parents and eventually the boy was removed from the class and kept at home on a temporary basis. He was returned to the classroom eventually and the problem was solved.
By all means speak up- we are the protectors of our children and the only ones who can speak up in their defense. If no action is taken then she must reconsider this choice of daycare.

 

[Debster]

Hi Dennis! I am a preschool teacher of 2 and a half year olds, and I also have worked in a Day Care for Hospital Employees. Last year I had a little boy exactly like the one you described-he would shove other children all the time for absolutely no reason. My coworker and I were on this kid all the time-we were so tired at the end of the day. We talked to the parents and they requested a consult with our local school district. Now this child is in a special preschool because he is showing some developmental delays.
As a parent, I would definitely request a meeting with the director to express your very valid concerns...as teachers we are very limited in terms of dicipline, so PLEASE spell it out to the director. And don't hesitate to pull her out if you are not happy with their response. Good luck and keep us posted Deb

 

[Marguerite53]

First of all.....you need to discuss this with your daughter. She should be the one to confront the director of the daycare center. And, I'm sure your daughter wouldn't want you acting ahead of Ellie's mother and father.

It is very VERY tough to leave your child in the care of others. It is very hard to find the perfect place. If there is anything at all which threatens the well-being of your grandchild, your daughter needs to follow through. Please have a heart to heart with her. You may find that she knows of many similar experiences becasue she talks with other new moms. You trust her. So just talk with her.

It could well boil down to a question of money, since quality care is so expensive. If that is the case, then you might want to offer a hand in all of this. That would mean talking with your daugher and son-in-law together.

Hang in there, Gramps.....it's gonna be a long ride!!

Marguerite

 

[mntbiker]

Hi Dennis,
Sorry to hear they are having this problem and I hope it reaches a satisfactory conclusion. But I am now going to get lots of people angry at me. Why? This is one of those big issues for me.

Why is she in daycare? Do your daughter and son-in-law really need two incomes or are they part of the "must have" generation? Do they have two nice cars, big house, cell phones, cable/dish with lots of channels, dinners out every week etc? If they really need two incomes why did they have a child? It is the parents responsibility to raise the child and dumping them in daycare doesn't cut it. This whole issue would be resolved if one of the parents stayed home. Who makes more? Whoever makes more keeps their job the other should stay home.

If they really do need the two incomes then my suggestion is have your daughter speak with the other parents, make them aware (if they aren't already which sadly they probably aren't) of what's happening, speak with the director and tell them it must be resolved, if there is no resolution then have the director bring the parent of this child in and confront the parent directly. Confrontation can be a wonderful thing if handled in an appropriate manner with proper support from authority figures.

 

[Dennis S]

Ok

Ok

Hi Dennis,
Sorry to hear they are having this problem and I hope it reaches a satisfactory conclusion. But I am now going to get lots of people angry at me. Why? This is one of those big issues for me.

Why is she in daycare? Do your daughter and son-in-law really need two incomes or are they part of the "must have" generation? Do they have two nice cars, big house, cell phones, cable/dish with lots of channels, dinners out every week etc? If they really need two incomes why did they have a child? It is the parents responsibility to raise the child and dumping them in daycare doesn't cut it. This whole issue would be resolved if one of the parents stayed home. Who makes more? Whoever makes more keeps their job the other should stay home.

If they really do need the two incomes then my suggestion is have your daughter speak with the other parents, make them aware (if they aren't already which sadly they probably aren't) of what's happening, speak with the director and tell them it must be resolved, if there is no resolution then have the director bring the parent of this child in and confront the parent directly. Confrontation can be a wonderful thing if handled in an appropriate manner with proper support from authority figures.

I don't know where to start with what you have posted, so I guess I won't.

 

[barbwil]

Dennis, It's very late and I am so sick and tired of all this election business but I just have to send you a note about little Ellie. She is such a beautiful little girl, those innocent eyes just tear me up and thinking of some little "bully" (who will grow up to be a big bully if nobody does something to stop him) pushing her down is hard to accept!!

You've had lots of good suggestions given that I can't really add to except to say give Stephanie a PUSH in the right direction; see that your granddaughter is protected.

I agree with "mountbiker" that it is ideal if a parent can stay home and give care but I also know the economy is such today that that isn't always possible. I was one who threw away a good career to be a stay-at-home mom; I just never had the energy to do both. I admire those who can "do it all" but I truly believe that something has to give!

We'll just pray that little Ellie will be kept safe and this situation will be resolved but it won't if Stephanie doesn't "take the bull by the horns"!

 

[Dennis S]

My request:

My request:

Perhaps it was marginal to ask this question on a heartvalve forum. But I did get some helpful information, which I appreciate. The last thing I want to get started is a debate on whether or not daycare for children is wrong except in cases of dire financial need.

I personally would never tell someone whether or not their child should go to daycare, unless they asked for my opinion. I am not asking for that opinion, and hope this thread doesn't go there. I surely do not want to offend anyone, and I would rather delete this thread than get into that kind of debate. Surely this is an individual question, and let's trust people to make the right decision in their case.

 

[hensylee]

the nursery may drag their feet. the kid might settle down, but probably not. all others have said somewhat the same things, but left out one thing. At the end of the conference with the staff of the nursery, your daughter might casually add 'my father, the lawyer, agrees with me and advised this meeting'. That opens eyes immediately. Good luck - a bully meeting early in life is not easy for little ones and may affect them all their lives.

 

[Dennis S]

Thanks for the comment:

Thanks for the comment:

I enjoyed your comment on a couple of different levels. I am not sure if I ever specifically mentioned it, but I was alone here in the mountains when I first got my serious valve symptoms. I was alone because Barb had gone to help our daughter. Stephanie needed her help because little Ellie was born a few weeks before Stephanie's bar exam in North Carolina. Daddy Joe was deployed in Iraq when Ellie was born, but got to come home for 10 days.

So, Stephanie had a baby, had a husband come home from a war zone-and go back to a very dangerous part of Iraq-and then passed the bar exam. So, she has her own license to practice-and it is fresher than mine!

But, one way or another, this isn't something that will go that far. Joe has been assigned to the University of Puerto Rico, which is where all of these things are taking place. Despite what some might expect from a career Army officer, Joe has a way of getting what he wants through an incredible charm. After a few minutes, people want to give him what he wants. (The fact that he is incredibly handsome with just a touch danger/mystery doesn't hurt with the ladies). So, I am sure this will work out well.

 

[Lynlw]

Hi Dennis,
Sorry to hear they are having this problem and I hope it reaches a satisfactory conclusion. But I am now going to get lots of people angry at me. Why? This is one of those big issues for me.

Why is she in daycare? Do your daughter and son-in-law really need two incomes or are they part of the "must have" generation? Do they have two nice cars, big house, cell phones, cable/dish with lots of channels, dinners out every week etc? If they really need two incomes why did they have a child? It is the parents responsibility to raise the child and dumping them in daycare doesn't cut it. This whole issue would be resolved if one of the parents stayed home. Who makes more? Whoever makes more keeps their job the other should stay home.

I think this was totally out of line. It is up to each family to decide which is best for their child and day care isn't always about the money ect.
As for dennis origonal question, I think you got good ideas and i definately think she should talk to the head or owner of the daycare about this situations, Since she asked. I think it shows what a great job you did as a dad that she asks your opinions on things, I hope I did as well as you, Lyn

 

[mntbiker]

Stephanie needed her help because little Ellie was born a few weeks before Stephanie's bar exam in North Carolina. Daddy Joe was deployed in Iraq when Ellie was born,

I was coming to apologize for my post sounding harsher then I meant and then I see this, now I feel like a complete piece of sh.. well you know. Sorry. And thank you to your son in law, daughter and granddaughter for making the greatest sacrifice, giving up the time they could have as a family so I can spend time with my family without fear and so much more.

(leaving with my head hung low)

 

[Dennis S]

To whom it may concern:

To whom it may concern:

Mtnbiker & I have talked by private message, and everything is fine between me and this good man. What a special group of people on this board.

 

[Marguerite53]

Dennis. Does this little boy also have parent(s) in the military? If so, is someone similarly going back and forth with dangerous assignments? Perhaps the spouse left at home is not so emotionally able to cope with all the stress??? Perhaps instead of judging this little boy harshly, some attempt could be made to help alleviate the emotional stress in his home which is causing him to act out??

Marguerite

 

[Dennis S]

The bigger picture:

The bigger picture:

You are so right to point out the bigger picture. And in fact, our military people encounter this more than most of us. When Steph & Joe were stationed in Brazil, the civilians that worked at the base went home to situations of such poverty-it would break your heart to see. And people working at the base had won the lottery in the eyes of their neighbors. And the children of our military people encounter a unigue series of stresses that most of us will never imagine.

Having said all of that, I think the first thing that has to be addressed is bullying type behavior-in as loving a way as possibel-but it has to be stopped, and stopped quickly. (Knowing you, I don't think this is anything you would disagree with). And I hope someone is taking care of the "big picture".

 

[Ross]

Mtnbiker & I have talked by private message, and everything is fine between me and this good man. What a special group of people on this board.

Darn! Darn! Darn!

 

[Andrew'sMom]

Hi Dennis,
I hope your little granddaughter and her family can get this problem resolved. I don't really have any advice, but last year my third son (who was 3 at the time) had a problem with a little bully at his pre-school. Seems this other boy just seemed to gravitate towards my son. The teachers told me that my son, as your granddaughter, did nothing to instigate. Daniel and this little boy had 3 separate go-rounds. Each time, the teachers told me they were both minding their own business and playing then suddenly Charlie would start bullying (pushing, hitting, sitting on him etc.) Daniel. I do know that Charlie was put in time-out and the teachers kept him pretty close to their side and we didn't have any more problems. It is heartbreaking to find out that your child/grandchild/someone else who you love dearly is being picked on or bullied. Wishing your family all the best for a positive and quick resolution.

 

[catwoman]

Having said all of that, I think the first thing that has to be addressed is bullying type behavior-in as loving a way as possibel-but it has to be stopped, and stopped quickly. (Knowing you, I don't think this is anything you would disagree with). And I hope someone is taking care of the "big picture".

Dennis:

Some places have laws against bullying behavior and these laws nearly always extend to schools, because that's where most of the behavior takes place. You might ask your daughter to investigate whether any laws apply in this situation.
At worst, she may be able to press a case that children are entitled to safety, whether from classmates, teachers/administrators, outsiders or facilities.