Covid Vaccines

[cldlhd]

I find many of of these people complaining are hypocrites and don't even realize it. As they get older with their limited or nonexistent savings that they don't want anyone messing with their Medicare of Social Security, hell "SOCIAL" is in the darn name. These are again the same people that when the natural disaster comes through they complain about the government not doing enough. People need to pick a position and stick to it, you either want little or no government mandates which should come with no assistance as well or you you don't and accept what comes with government involvement.

Short version, you don' want a vaccine they pay the full costs of your care when you get sick from Covid and not cost me money indirectly via my raised insurance premiums and taxes. And as cruel as this sounds, if that bankrupts you and puts you on the street, that was your choice. Don't get the vaccine and not have a valid medical excuse and even refuse them at the hospital is fine with me. And finally for hospitals don't ask me for proof of vaccine unless you have mandated all your employees get the vaccine. We keep walking on eggshells trying to be nice to ignorant selfish people, time is up.

My caring for ignorant self centered people is over.

Well of course they're hypocrites. Their feeling is that they deserve help from the government and most of the other people who get it don't. I will say that while I agree with you for more than I agree with them for the most part I can understand the thought process a little. In other words I can understand somebody who is a productive working citizen paying their own way for the most part. wanting help from the government when a natural disaster hits while also not really being happy with people who could be productive but choose to be a drain on society for whatever reason. You know those who don't work, prefer to steal and get arrested and cost us money with more police, more jails, more social workers etc etc

 

[Seeker]

Communist? So no privately owned businesses or property? Give me a break. Then don't get the shot because the orange blowhard is out. No offense but worrying about the safety is understandable but risking your health because of "Foxitis" is ridiculous- or perhaps natural selection....
Or perhaps you mean communist as in "if I don't win it's all rigged"? Declaring all elections fraudulent unless you win ...

Nobody comes to this forum to be chastised. The civility and kindness of its members are what keep me here.

 

[pellicle]

People need to pick a position and stick to it

OR: people need to see that their position changes (or may change) over time and accept that what they believe may evolve as they are and experience more. When they do this two things occur:

1. Personal growth
2. Tolerance (because "I used to think like that")

People need to stop being so combative about their views and have a more humble approach to what others believe.

The word hubris comes to mind.

 

[cldlhd]

Nobody comes to this forum to be chastised. The civility and kindness of its members are what keep me here.

Not sure of your point . Perhaps you're agreeing with me and I misinterpreted, perhaps not

 

[cldlhd]

OR: people need to see that their position changes (or may change) over time and accept that what they believe may evolve as they are and experience more. When they do this two things occur:

1. Personal growth
2. Tolerance (because "I used to think like that")

People need to stop being so combative about their views and have a more humble approach to what others believe.

The word hubris comes to mind.

Yeah I mean I never really understood why a politician changing their position, at least in the United States, was always viewed as such a negative and they are called a flip-flopper. I understand if it's obvious that they've changed their views strictly for political expediency then it's just phony but if somebody genuinely gains new insight and therefore changes their opinion that is a positive in my book.

 

[Unicusp]

If you would like to teach at this private school in Miami, Florida, better hope that you have not been vaccinated.

"We cannot allow recently vaccinated people to be near our students until more information is known,"

"Mrs Centner also repeated a false claim of vaccinated individuals affecting unvaccinated people, saying three women in the school's community had their menstrual cycles "impacted after having spent time with a vaccinated person". "


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56905752

Then there's this guy:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/cor...ocked-covid-19-vaccine-dies-of-virus/3172761/
And, Europe's got them too:

" Mass anti-vaxx protests occurred in London last night, with one conspiracy theorist causing outrage for telling doctors and nurses that they could be tried and hung in Nuremberg-style trials. "

https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-vaxx-conspiracy-theorist-tells-111701054.html


View attachment 888000

Florida is really screwed up. In many ways now. Used to be a nice place to go. I think I'll pick alternatives in the future.

 

[pellicle]

but if somebody genuinely gains new insight and therefore changes their opinion that is a positive in my book.

agreed, and if you've gone from 20 to 40 and still think the same way about everything and have the same fundamental views its not something I'd brag about.

 

[Keithl]

Well of course they're hypocrites. Their feeling is that they deserve help from the government and most of the other people who get it don't. I will say that while I agree with you for more than I agree with them for the most part I can understand the thought process a little. In other words I can understand somebody who is a productive working citizen paying their own way for the most part. wanting help from the government when a natural disaster hits while also not really being happy with people who could be productive but choose to be a drain on society for whatever reason. You know those who don't work, prefer to steal and get arrested and cost us money with more police, more jails, more social workers etc etc

I agree in theory, people that work hard do not want to see free handouts. And I am not for free handouts. I am for providing a robust safety net for people as anyone can fall on hard times at any time. Will some people try and game the system, yes, but we need to have good enforcement with severe penalties for those that cheat it.

 

[Keithl]

Yeah I mean I never really understood why a politician changing their position, at least in the United States, was always viewed as such a negative and they are called a flip-flopper. I understand if it's obvious that they've changed their views strictly for political expediency then it's just phony but if somebody genuinely gains new insight and therefore changes their opinion that is a positive in my book.

I believe becasue more times than not it is not becasue their personal opinion has changed, but they stick their finger in the air to see which way public opinion is blowing and change their position to stay in power or get what they want. I won't digress too much, but term limits with anti-lobbying cool off periods after their term would result in better government. When you hear some of the things these politicians say and it is amazing that they really have no fundamental soul. IN the day of everything being recorded they really do not car and deny what they previously said even when confronted with the video/audio evidence.

 

[Keithl]

OR: people need to see that their position changes (or may change) over time and accept that what they believe may evolve as they are and experience more. When they do this two things occur:

1. Personal growth
2. Tolerance (because "I used to think like that")

People need to stop being so combative about their views and have a more humble approach to what others believe.

The word hubris comes to mind.

One thing I learned during the Trump years is insight into how he tapped into a nerve with his base. I grew up in one area in a middle class family in a big city. As the analysis came out about what his voters were saying it resonated with me as to why they followed him. Because no one else was talking to them or about them. What annoyed me as how none of the other party or other candidates could tap into that, because they were career politicians and people assumed they were being lied to. Regardless of their politics a lot of his base has been left behind and ignored and he spoke to them about that. I have tried to put myself in their position and I see some of what appeals to them and honestly some of it makes sense. Had it not been sold by snake oil salesman I could actually support some of the positions.

The sad thing I believe most people are in the middle 40%+ on their views, but the parties need to play to the base. This country needs a good third party that is moderate, but never going to happen in my lifetime.

 

[pellicle]

This country needs a good third party that is moderate, but never going to happen in my lifetime.

I can't be sure, but from where I sit we are (and I mean Australia and the USA) becoming a more polarised population, this is not conducive to a center party. Interestingly however both Left and Right in Australia are becoming less clearly Left or Right wing. Additionally everyone wants to be important and (think they are) smart (but make no effort for attaining that).

When I grew up most people around me (and this includes my university years) were happy to venture an opinion but equally would admit to not understanding something. This was the 80's. When I went to Japan to live and work (as a type of engineer) for a few years I was stuck by how many people answered my questions about history, language, culture with "I don't know, its not my area", and maybe venture an opinion after that start.
When I returned to Australia (mid 2000's) I was stunned by how many total f'tards were not just willing to venture an opinion on a topic that they clearly knew nothing about, but would begin by interrupting a discussion (by people who were expert) and tell them how and why they were wrong. Especially if that topic had been on TV recently.

I was exasperated and wondered when the "Homer Simpson" fool had been transplanted into Australia.

Trump is a master manipulator and of course played exactly into peoples desires to get what he wanted.

Because no one else was talking to them or about them.

as an aside, did you know that the fundamental basis for the beginning of Islam was because the Arabs felt that they were missing out in the world. The Jews (Mohammad was married to a Jew) had their God and the Christians their Saviour.

To me wisdom is to understand what you know and what you don't and try to learn from those who know more than you rather than to try to score points in a debate. However Dunning and Kruger recently did a study which has clarified why this behaviour is uncommon.

However POWER comes from the gathering of many under your influence, Trump did just that. Jung identifies the ways which people have done this quite well in his books where he discusses mass psychosis.


Best Wishes

 

[Chuck C]

However Dunning and Kruger recently did a study which has clarified why this behaviour is uncommon.

Interesting that you mention Dunning and Kruger. I watched an interesting video presentation today, which discusses the Dunning and Kruger effect relative to the current anti-vaccination movement. Some interesting insights into vaccine hesitancy:

 

[pellicle]

good points especially in the first 5 minutes ... well worth watching for anyone "on the fence"

 

[slipkid]

It’s like they dug a trench and will not give up their position regardless of how indefensible it is.

That sums up a recent president and some of his followers from what I have observed. And the more indefensible the position, the larger the line is drawn to defend it.

 

[slipkid]

I haven't been following latest news scuttlebut etc regarding the various vaccines but I recall a while ago there was talk that some vaccines might need an additional booster shot a year later or whatever to keep our immune systems tuned in so to speak. Has anyone heard anything recently about this, where any of that might stand with the various vaccines?

 

[cldlhd]

I haven't been following latest news scuttlebut etc regarding the various vaccines but I recall a while ago there was talk that some vaccines might need an additional booster shot a year later or whatever to keep our immune systems tuned in so to speak. Has anyone heard anything recently about this, where any of that might stand with the various vaccines?

I don't think they're recommending it as of now but with new variants and possibly fading immunity I wouldn't vet against it. Personally I wouldn't care as long as it's as easy to get as it is now. There's a pharmacy right across the street from my work where you can walk in get it with no appointment and no line

 

[carolinemc]

That's a horrible story. My entire workplace is vaccinated except for a 22 yr old guy was who thinks he doesn't need it because " everyone else got it" and he wants to"see how long he can go without catching it". I tried talking to him several times but at the end of the day what can you do?

It is like my brother, who has bronchial asthma, has had it since age 7, and he believe everything any jerk will tell him. Won't use common sense and get the shot. Sad that many would rather listen to fake misinformation instead of Medical science.

 

[carolinemc]

A Perfect vaccine means that if you are vaccinated, you will not get the disease and will not pass it on. I included a link that explained that. If the vaccine was perfect, the current world strategy would likely work.

With up to 25% of those vaccinated infecting others, they can obviously infect both those who are and are not vaccinated. To blame all the new infections on the unvaccinated is to ignore the fact that the vaccines are not perfect.

The article I linked to also explains how an imperfect vaccine can result in mutations that the vaccines are less effective on as we are seeing now with the delta variant. In other words, the variants that escape the vaccine are those the vaccine is not as effective at killing. Unless governments get their act together, we will likely see Covid-19 with us for years to come with a yearly vaccine or booster as we have with influenza.

Uh, there has never been a perfect vaccine, it just prevents DEATH. Many believe that the flu shot is a cure of the flu, but it just prevents death.

 

[carolinemc]

I haven't been following latest news scuttlebut etc regarding the various vaccines but I recall a while ago there was talk that some vaccines might need an additional booster shot a year later or whatever to keep our immune systems tuned in so to speak. Has anyone heard anything recently about this, where any of that might stand with the various vaccines?

yes and many have been thinking about that, Pfizer and Moderna. But they are stuck due to convincing the governments all over the world. But they are trying to get that out due to the Delta, Lambda and new variants that are coming out.

 

[pellicle]

Are we in bizarro world?

Yep
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ris-calls-for-ban-on-cigarettes-within-decade