Covid Vaccines

[cldlhd]

A logical reason would be we have no long term data and it was hurried to market using a new process. That said, so far so good. But I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who was uncomfortable with the new process. A couple of months is not long term. Especially for low risk individuals who are weighing the potential challenges of Covid vs potential long term vaccine issues. As long as those who aren’t getting it are sensible enough to mask and social distance.

Just because the zombie apocalypse hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t mean it won’t!

After reading more of this, I feel I should add in my defense:

- I still mask in public
- I still work from home in my basement
- Any trips we’ve taken have been rural and distanced
- I hardly went out to dinner before for the pandemic. No change now.
- I totally get that influenza was non-existent this year largely because of Covid protocols, not because of conspiracy cover-ups.
- And I’ll run right down and get my shots if they say we can visit the Canadian Rockies from the US! Zombie apocalypse be damned!
- My parents and in-laws are all vaccinated and my oldest got his at college and all are fine.

I believe there may be limited data with this specific vaccine but not with the technology used. That has been in testing for some time now. I think the approval process was basically the same except for the amount of time and therefore data.
For me you kind of said it at the end when your reservations will disappear if there's an incentive which shows me they're not really that big of a concern. In other words lots of people ran out and got their shot after their state introduced a lottery. In other words if you really thought there was a health concern involved you wouldn't risk your health so that you could go on vacation or get a lottery ticket.
I've never been to the Canadian Rockies only those on the US side but I do plan on traveling more when this is over, I do enjoy it It just always seemed like there were other things that needed to be done or financial priorities

 

[Superman]

I believe there may be limited data with this specific vaccine but not with the technology used. That has been in testing for some time now. I think the approval process was basically the same except for the amount of time and therefore data.

For me you kind of said it at the end when your reservations will disappear if there's an incentive which shows me they're not really that big of a concern.

Yeah. Not huge concerns. More like cost benefit analysis. The benefit of seeing the Canadian Rockies would outweigh any vaccine reservations I have. I will say my concerns were higher earlier, and with at least one showing clotting issues, I wasn’t too excited about that. I still wouldn’t get the J&J one.

I’m also fairly confident it ran through our house last February (2020) before it was ‘officially’ here. My wife had all the symptoms. No sense of taste or smell, high fever, really lethargic. Went on for more than a week, but at least the fever was short lived. We had just come back from Disney before the shut down. Others in the house had various symptoms, but none presented like she did.

I saw “I Am Legend”, and what happened with the cancer cure. Funnily enough, I read the original book by Richard Matheson when recovering from my from my last heart surgery in 2009. I think the cancer cure angle was for the movie. I don’t remember what triggered the disease in the book.

 

[tom in MO]

Well Canada, like Australia, has a vaccination rate of ~5%. They aren't going to open their doors any time soon unless they start believing in, paying for and setting up a distribution system for vaccines. Colorado has some nice mountains and is open. European vaccination rates are in >25%, there are always the Alps in the fall

Personally, in June, I and my vaccinated family are going to New Hampshire to spend 2 weeks in the White Mountains. We will be masking and distancing as the situation indicates. Don't want to be at a concert in front of the highly contaminated asymptomatic 14 year old with the as yet undiscovered Massachusetts strain w/o that mask...oh remember it doesn't work One study showed that in colleges, ~30% of the infected students had ~70% of the covid burden on campus. Oh my gosh beware of the superspreader (this isn't peanut butter)!

We'll all die from something. I worked every working day in the last year except for vacation. I went to restaurants got take out and then ate in when possible. Picked the resturaunts carefully and walked out of some. Went to the farmers market and grocery store (2 of them) every week (yes I did have a panic attack but got over it) Played pool every week (w/o masks...we drink beer) with the guys (two got covid not the other 4). Church once a week. Your gonna die of somethin, that's a given Live your life unafraid.

 

[cldlhd]

Well Canada, like Australia, has a vaccination rate of ~5%. They aren't going to open their doors any time soon unless they start believing in, paying for and setting up a distribution system for vaccines. Colorado has some nice mountains and is open. European vaccination rates are in >25%, there are always the Alps in the fall

Personally, in June, I and my vaccinated family are going to New Hampshire to spend 2 weeks in the White Mountains. We will be masking and distancing as the situation indicates. Don't want to be at a concert in front of the highly contaminated asymptomatic 14 year old with the as yet undiscovered Massachusetts strain w/o that mask...oh remember it doesn't work One study showed that in colleges, ~30% of the infected students had ~70% of the covid burden on campus. Oh my gosh beware of the superspreader (this isn't peanut butter)!

We'll all die from something. I worked every working day in the last year except for vacation. I went to restaurants got take out and then ate in when possible. Picked the resturaunts carefully and walked out of some. Went to the farmers market and grocery store (2 of them) every week (yes I did have a panic attack but got over it) Played pool every week (w/o masks...we drink beer) with the guys (two got covid not the other 4). Church once a week. Your gonna die of somethin, that's a given Live your life unafraid.

My wife and I are both fully vaccinated and our 14 year old son will be on June 3rd. We're finally going on vacation in June to Martha's vineyard for 6 days so here's hoping there's no secret Massachusetts strain ...... I would say there's a difference between rational precautions and fear. I mean you don't close your eyes while booming down the highway as to avoid crashing. We all die of something but hopefully many years from now. It's a risk- reward calculation.

 

[Lynn]

Tom, as a Canadian I have to say your comments regarding Canada’s vaccination rate/plan are not at all accurate. Well we did have supply shortages early on as we have really no vaccine manufacturing, we now have over 60% of adults in Canada with at least one dose. In B.C. where I live, we have over 62% of people over the age of 12 vaccinated with one shot and are speeding up second doses now that we have the vaccine supply to do so. The role out, for the most part has been smooth and efficient. Vaccines are free of charge and clinics are well run and abundant. The vaccination plan has been based on science, with older and clinically vulnerable people, and essential workers receiving vaccines first. Most of my friends and all of my family, even my children in their 20’s have had a dose.

I don’t know where the numbers stand today, but we had a day last week where Canada had actually vaccinated a higher percentage of the population with one shot than the U.S. This changes every day, obviously but my point is that we clearly do believe in and have set up a distribution network for vaccines.

Now, will be cautious in opening our borders? I hope so. But I also hope we can get back to a place where I can see my American family members soon.

 

[tom in MO]

Tom, as a Canadian I have to say your comments regarding Canada’s vaccination rate/plan are not at all accurate. Well we did have supply shortages early on as we have really no vaccine manufacturing, we now have over 60% of adults in Canada with at least one dose. In B.C. where I live, we have over 62% of people over the age of 12 vaccinated with one shot and are speeding up second doses now that we have the vaccine supply to do so. The role out, for the most part has been smooth and efficient. Vaccines are free of charge and clinics are well run and abundant. The vaccination plan has been based on science, with older and clinically vulnerable people, and essential workers receiving vaccines first. Most of my friends and all of my family, even my children in their 20’s have had a dose.

I don’t know where the numbers stand today, but we had a day last week where Canada had actually vaccinated a higher percentage of the population with one shot than the U.S. This changes every day, obviously but my point is that we clearly do believe in and have set up a distribution network for vaccines.

Now, will be cautious in opening our borders? I hope so. But I also hope we can get back to a place where I can see my American family members soon.

It comes from here: COVID-19 vaccination coverage in Canada - Canada.ca

The numbers look a little weird, but its the government

I know Canadians that live on the border and are very frustrated. They have post office boxes and girlfriends to get to just over the border in the US

I live in one state and 3 miles away there is another state. I can cross w/o problem. The Canada-US border is a fictional barrier created by history, politics, chauvinism and ignorance. I believe people can travel freely within Canada, why not into the US?

Since Covid, one good friend has visited his grandchildren in London and TelAviv but cannot visit the two in Newfoundland. In London he had to quarantine 14 days (this was a year ago when Britain had high numbers) and he did it in an air bnb w/o government supervision. They let him go out for exercise and food. He's now vaccinated so he and his wife did not need to quarantine in TelAviv. However, Canada won't let him in.

 

[Lynn]

Tom, from the same website you reference: 61.87% of adults over 18 with one dose. I didn’t know what you meant by -5.% vaccinated. I see you may have meant 5.69 fully vaccinated. The U.S. is far ahead in second doses, your vaccine roll out has been impressive and it is terrific to see.

Now that Canada has a steady vaccine supply, i hope we catch up quickly. No doubt, Canada has a cautious approach to visitors. Most Canadians I know fully support this, some do not. I have supported most of the measures, particularly when we had limited vaccine, and when US cases were sky high. In the past few months parts of Canada have been hit hard by a 3rd wave, and have been forced to lock down again, and this is unfortunate. Over the course of the pandemic though, the US has had over 1800 deaths per million, Canada has had 668. (According to World Meter) . This is not a judgement, it is just a reason many Canadians support the border closures. I personally, hope both countries continue to see cases decline so we can get back to open borders.

While I felt it was important to correct the notion that vaccines are not free in Canada and that there is no plan, I agree with you on a couple of things. It is very frustrating to not be able to see your grandchildren, and Colorado really does have some lovely mountains. Cheers

 

[Luckyguy17]

In summary:

 

[Lynn]

I’ll drink to science Luckyguy

 

[jcgtok17]

I got back to Tokyo this week. The olympics are close now, but oh so far from an accessibility standpoint. No spectators allowed, first in Tokyo venues and now almost across the board. Hotels accepting Olympic guests subject to quarantine seem to be having difficulty with some of the logistics. I saw posts this morning of signage on elevators such as "Japanese only" and "Foreigners",later modified to "White, and other foreigners". I know there are only 2-2.5 million foreigners here, but foreign residents are not delineated.

My doctor in Tokyo (AVR 1 May 2016) suggested getting vaccinated in Canada as their vaccination pace is commendable (40% of the pop. have both shots). I was able to re-schedule my 2nd Moderna (MRNA) shot to July 4th in NS just 2 days prior to my return to Japan. A sore arm, like with the 1st shot and some muscle soreness but 3/10 in terms of severity. I am entering day 3 of the 14 day "self-quarantine". Still massively jet-lagged penning this missive at 4:50am local time. The Japan apps (Overseas Entrant Locator, SOS and COVID-19 contact tracing app) seem to work well and I can still get in my daily run outdoors under their rules. From a worrisome level 2 months back Nova Scotia (pop. 1 million) is reporting 1-2 cases per day (>200/day at the worst). Coming to Japan from NS you can self quarantine at home. If you some via Ontario, Canada's "hot spot" to need to start your quarantine at a govt. mandated hotel. Pic of covid-19 airport bus attached from friend arriving from the UK. The saliva based C-19 test on arrival was the bottleneck to get through. From landing it was just shy of 4 hours of "processing". The testing cert. Japan requires is quirky and I only received it as my journey was underway, hence I only had it in e-mail pdf form. They insisted on a printed copy which accounted for 45 min. of the delay. My wife found a Family Mart at the airport to print it and the immigration agent collected it. The Canada rules for tourists remains super strict, but for fully vaccinated citizens there is no longer a requirement to quarantine from 5th July 2021. I am glad for that having run the gauntlet in early May (i.e. Covid-19 hotel in Montreal and 14 days of self isolation). I am returning mid August for a term academic posting at Cape Breton University in Nova Scotia.

I am concerned with the medical care transition from Japan to Canada. In Japan valvular heart disease is a "level 1" disability whereas Canada has no such construct. My appointments in Tokyo are every 2 months with teeth cleaning on the same schedule (I had infective endocarditis which came from tooth plaque from my own mouth). In Canada I can not likely get a GP (General Practitioner) let alone a Cardiologist and IF I do the frequency will be 6-12 months. I will likely fly to Toronto on my dime for a supplemental annual check. TAVI is covered under Canada's universal healthcare system. This is hopefully at least 7 years out as I just passed my 5 year tissue valve anniversary.

Regards, Caleb

 

[carolinemc]

I got back to Tokyo this week. The olympics are close now, but oh so far from an accessibility standpoint. No spectators allowed, first in Tokyo venues and now almost across the board. Hotels accepting Olympic guests subject to quarantine seem to be having difficulty with some of the logistics. I saw posts this morning of signage on elevators such as "Japanese only" and "Foreigners",later modified to "White, and other foreigners". I know there are only 2-2.5 million foreigners here, but foreign residents are not delineated.

My doctor in Tokyo (AVR 1 May 2016) suggested getting vaccinated in Canada as their vaccination pace is commendable (40% of the pop. have both shots). I was able to re-schedule my 2nd Moderna (MRNA) shot to July 4th in NS just 2 days prior to my return to Japan. A sore arm, like with the 1st shot and some muscle soreness but 3/10 in terms of severity. I am entering day 3 of the 14 day "self-quarantine". Still massively jet-lagged penning this missive at 4:50am local time. The Japan apps (Overseas Entrant Locator, SOS and COVID-19 contact tracing app) seem to work well and I can still get in my daily run outdoors under their rules. From a worrisome level 2 months back Nova Scotia (pop. 1 million) is reporting 1-2 cases per day (>200/day at the worst). Coming to Japan from NS you can self quarantine at home. If you some via Ontario, Canada's "hot spot" to need to start your quarantine at a govt. mandated hotel. Pic of covid-19 airport bus attached from friend arriving from the UK. The saliva based C-19 test on arrival was the bottleneck to get through. From landing it was just shy of 4 hours of "processing". The testing cert. Japan requires is quirky and I only received it as my journey was underway, hence I only had it in e-mail pdf form. They insisted on a printed copy which accounted for 45 min. of the delay. My wife found a Family Mart at the airport to print it and the immigration agent collected it. The Canada rules for tourists remains super strict, but for fully vaccinated citizens there is no longer a requirement to quarantine from 5th July 2021. I am glad for that having run the gauntlet in early May (i.e. Covid-19 hotel in Montreal and 14 days of self isolation). I am returning mid August for a term academic posting at Cape Breton University in Nova Scotia.

I am concerned with the medical care transition from Japan to Canada. In Japan valvular heart disease is a "level 1" disability whereas Canada has no such construct. My appointments in Tokyo are every 2 months with teeth cleaning on the same schedule (I had infective endocarditis which came from tooth plaque from my own mouth). In Canada I can not likely get a GP (General Practitioner) let alone a Cardiologist and IF I do the frequency will be 6-12 months. I will likely fly to Toronto on my dime for a supplemental annual check. TAVI is covered under Canada's universal healthcare system. This is hopefully at least 7 years out as I just passed my 5 year tissue valve anniversary.

Regards, Caleb

Great that you got your vaccine. Many people are not and there is an uptick in America of the contraction of the virus in those not vaccinated yet. Many of them believe that the covid is fake and there is a cover up of the deaths from covid. I just read a heart breaking story of a 23 year old, thought that he was so healthy that Covid would never happen to him, he ended up in the hospital with covid and begging for the vaccine. And now he is looking forward to a double lung transplant. Many are facing that or heart damage from Covid. . Happy Anniversary of your valve. Keep safe.

 

[Chuck C]

This is hopefully at least 7 years out as I just passed my 5 year tissue valve anniversary.

Congratulations on your valviversity!

(I had infective endocarditis which came from tooth plaque from my own mouth)

If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious how they determined the source? Did your infection follow immediately after dental work?

 

[cldlhd]

Great that you got your vaccine. Many people are not and there is an uptick in America of the contraction of the virus in those not vaccinated yet. Many of them believe that the covid is fake and there is a cover up of the deaths from covid. I just read a heart breaking story of a 23 year old, thought that he was so healthy that Covid would never happen to him, he ended up in the hospital with covid and begging for the vaccine. And now he is looking forward to a double lung transplant. Many are facing that or heart damage from Covid. . Happy Anniversary of your valve. Keep safe.

That's a horrible story. My entire workplace is vaccinated except for a 22 yr old guy was who thinks he doesn't need it because " everyone else got it" and he wants to"see how long he can go without catching it". I tried talking to him several times but at the end of the day what can you do?

 

[jcgtok17]

Congratulations on your valviversity!



If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious how they determined the source? Did your infection follow immediately after dental work?

Apparently they only determine the exact cause of the infection for infective endocarditis in 40% of cases. It was not due to the timeline, rather than the analysis of the bacteria itself. Staphylococcus Sanguinis.
New plan covers cleaning every 5 months so I should only have to buy 1-2 per year "out of pocket".
Got a cardiologist assigned in Canada already. There are 4 for an island of 100k so that was a concern!

 

[jcgtok17]

My mother (77) refuses to get the vaccine. This on the advice of my sister who is not a doctor, but plays one on teevee. Frustrating as if she catches COVID-19 it will likely end her life. This is someone who gets and annual flu shot and has been vaccinated for shingles (cost out of pocket).

 

[pellicle]

Frustrating as if she catches COVID-19 it will likely end her life.

we all die sometime, why not allow people to choose?

in the big scheme of things she can learn the hard way (or never learn even going the hard path) and it won't change much.

Max Plank famously stated:

 

[jcgtok17]

I'd prefer she make it to great-grandmother status, and with my tissue value I'd rather not be spending time with anti-vax zealots. Unless we are hermits, these decisions impact those around us.

 

[rich01]

I believe there may be limited data with this specific vaccine but not with the technology used. That has been in testing for some time now. I think the approval process was basically the same except for the amount of time and therefore data.
For me you kind of said it at the end when your reservations will disappear if there's an incentive which shows me they're not really that big of a concern. In other words lots of people ran out and got their shot after their state introduced a lottery. In other words if you really thought there was a health concern involved you wouldn't risk your health so that you could go on vacation or get a lottery ticket.
I've never been to the Canadian Rockies only those on the US side but I do plan on traveling more when this is over, I do enjoy it It just always seemed like there were other things that needed to be done or financial priorities

If I had it to do over again, I probably would not get vaccinated. I did my due diligence, but damaging information about the J&J vaccine came out just days after I received the vaccine. I believe there are equally effective and safer alternatives to the vaccine.

We see that the vaccines are not that effective against the delta variant and may even be helping to create new variants because these are not "perfect" vaccines. We also see a very large number of breakthrough cases. A recent study in Israel showed that those vaccinated still had about a 25% chance of infecting someone else with Covid-19 (about 50% vaccinated had a breakthrough case and about 50% of them infected others).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11742400/

 

[cldlhd]

If I had it to do over again, I probably would not get vaccinated. I did my due diligence, but damaging information about the J&J vaccine came out just days after I received the vaccine. I believe there are equally effective and safer alternatives to the vaccine.

We see that the vaccines are not that effective against the delta variant and may even be helping to create new variants because these are not "perfect" vaccines. We also see a very large number of breakthrough cases. A recent study in Israel showed that those vaccinated still had about a 25% chance of infecting someone else with Covid-19 (about 50% vaccinated had a breakthrough case and about 50% of them infected others).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11742400/

I don't know anybody who said the vaccines are perfect. I didn't get the Johnson and Johnson I got the Moderna. The data is pretty clear, yes you can still possibly get infected but the odds are very good that it'll be a much more mild infection. What is it approximately 99% of Americans in the hospital now with covid are unvaccinated? That's pretty convincing to me.
Also assuming I was on unvaccinated I would much rather be around the group of people who were all vaccinated rather than the other way around.
You're an anti-vaxxer engaging in misinformation. I don't believe you got vaccinated. The article you mentioned has nothing to do with this particular vaccine or even this technology. The article is 20 years old.

 

[rich01]

I don't know anybody who said the vaccines are perfect. I didn't get the Johnson and Johnson I got the Moderna. The data is pretty clear, yes you can still possibly get infected but the odds are very good that it'll be a much more mild infection. What is it approximately 99% of Americans in the hospital now with covid are unvaccinated? That's pretty convincing to me.
Also assuming I was on unvaccinated I would much rather be around the group of people who were all vaccinated rather than the other way around.
You're an anti-vaxxer engaging in misinformation. I don't believe you got vaccinated. The article you mentioned has nothing to do with this particular vaccine or even this technology. The article is 20 years old.

A Perfect vaccine means that if you are vaccinated, you will not get the disease and will not pass it on. I included a link that explained that. If the vaccine was perfect, the current world strategy would likely work.

With up to 25% of those vaccinated infecting others, they can obviously infect both those who are and are not vaccinated. To blame all the new infections on the unvaccinated is to ignore the fact that the vaccines are not perfect.

The article I linked to also explains how an imperfect vaccine can result in mutations that the vaccines are less effective on as we are seeing now with the delta variant. In other words, the variants that escape the vaccine are those the vaccine is not as effective at killing. Unless governments get their act together, we will likely see Covid-19 with us for years to come with a yearly vaccine or booster as we have with influenza.