coumadin & aspirin

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nigella

i thought if you were taking coumadin, you needed to stay away from the aspirin. mom has a st jude's aortic valve, mechanical, ,keeps her INR between 2.0 and 3.0, and her cardiologist last week told her she should take aspirin in addition to the coumadin. have i been misinformed? I'm not sure if she's already started to take the aspirin so i don't know if at all it's affected her INR, but I'm highly curious as to whether or not she should be taking the two concomitantly? also, he stopped the medications she left with post-op, like digoxin etc.. he also stopped her pre-op meds ( atelonol etc..), which we suspect were giving her a cough.. should she be on an antihypertensive even though her BP post -op is not high? needless to say, she she feels "bare without the meds she was told to take after OHS...any insiht would be very much appreciated.
 
Hi.
I was also put on aspirin after surgery and I have a similar mechanizal valve in the aortic position. I'm taking those 81mg children's aspirin. It's a minor dose so there isn't much of a bleed risk (i'm on coumadin as well). If she is taking more than the low dosage stuff, she might want to double check with the cardio. My cardio. told me it was standard practice.
 
I take both Coumadin & aspirin because I have problems with TIAs. Aspirin works differently from Coumadin on the platelets that cause TIAs.

Usually the dosage of aspirin in my situation is 1 baby aspirin (about 82mg) per day. That dose is normally low enough not to cause bleeding issues.

Aspirin does not affect INR so you cannot really tell if you are getting too much except if bleeding occurs.

I would try to find out why your mom's cardio put her on aspirin and make your conclusions from that point.
 
thank you both for replying so quickly .. i guess it makes sense... esp. since they both work differently ... i'm not sure why he put her on baby aspirin, but i guess it may be standard procedure for him ... he tends to be very aggressive, in my opinion...thanks again
 
aspirin?

aspirin?

Ross said:
It is pretty much standard procedure. Some even add Plavix to the others as well.

Is aspirin standard procedure with tissue valves as well as mechanical ones? What if a person were allergic to aspirin?

Karen
 
I was not prescribed aspirin post-op. In fact, all my doctors have advised me never to take aspirin. Luckily, I have no need for Plavix, aspirin, etc.

I knew a woman who became highly allergic to aspirin. It caused her to swell up -- fingers, face, even her throat. She was home when she got the reaction. This was back in the mid-1970s, when most people still had rotary dial phones, and she was barely able to dial for help, much less say anything. She was rushed to a hospital and told to never ever take aspirin again. She had had lesser reactions previously, but had not been warned against taking it. She was told she would probably have a fatal reaction should she ever take aspirin again.
 
Marsha, the reaction you described is very much like what I experienced on two different occasions, although not quite so severe. I've also been told to NOT take Motrin, Advil, Aleve, Relafen because of similar, although less serious reactions to all of those drugs.

You weren't prescribed aspirin... Would your doctor have known you wouldn't require aspirin therapy before your surgery? It must be decided on a case by case basis... But it seems very risky to go into surgery with this huge variable hanging out there... Does anyone know if there are alternatives to aspirin when there seems to be an indication for taking aspirin?
 
Karen:
Some tissue recipients are prescribed Coumadin for a short while post-op. This is not uncommon. Some may also be told to take aspirin concurrently.

I have a mechanical valve, so I was prescribed Coumadin. My surgeon & cardio saw no need for me to take aspirin. I don't know what their decision was based on -- the heart cath, my cholesterol levels, etc. I knew pre-op that the mechanical valve would require me to take warfarin, but there was never any talk about possibly needing aspirin.

If you have a potentially life-threatening allergy to aspirin, you should never take it.
BTW, did you have to take epinephrin (sp?) as an antidote for the symptoms?
 
Hi,

I also have been on a 325 mg Enteric, (coated), Aspirin and Coumadin for over 5 years now, and have some reports that I have saved that may be of interst to you.

My doctor is now thinking about cuttng me back in the Aspirin dose. we will probably discuss this on my next visit.

Critically Appraised Topic:
Can low dose anticoagulation with warfarin and/or aspirin be effective in the primary prevention of ischemic heart disease in men at high risk?
Appraised by: Deb Bynum, MD
Date: Feb 11, 1998
Clinical Bottom Lines:
1) Low dose anticoagulation with warfarin (with a mean INR of 1.47) reduced all ischemic heart disease events (fatal and nonfatal) from 12.4% in patients not on warfarin (on aspirin alone or placebo) to 9.8% in patients on warfarin for a RRR of 21% (p=.02). This effect was primarily due to a 39% RRR in fatal events (4.8% of patients not on warfarin had a fatal IHD event compared to 2.9% patients on warfarin). This also accounted for an overall decrease in all cause mortality from 13.9% in patients not on warfarin to 11.6% -- a RRR of 17%. The effect of warfarin on nonfatal IHD events was not significant.
2) The use of aspirin (with or without warfarin) was associated with a 20% decrease in all IHD events (p=.04) from 11.8% in patients not on aspirin to 9.5% in those on aspirin. However, in contrast to warfarin, there was no difference in the rate of fatal IHD events (3.7% on aspirin vs 3.3% not on Aspirin). Nonfatal IHD events however were decreased from 8.5% to 5.8% with the use of aspirin (RRR 32%). There was no difference in all cause mortality between patients taking aspirin and those not on aspirin.
3) Warfarin and aspirin increased the risk of hemorrhagic and fatal strokes. Patients on warfarin had a slight increase in the rate of strokes from any cause (2.7% to 3.1%) and a small increase in hemorrhagic strokes from 0.2% to 0.5%. Aspirin was associated with a slight increase in hemorrhagic strokes from 0.1% to 0.6%, but a decrease in thrombotic strokes from 2.0% to 1.3% -- therefore there was no difference in the rate of strokes from any cause with aspirin (2.9% vs 3.0%).
4) There was an increased risk of ruptured aortic or dissecting aneurysm in patients on warfarin (15 patients) vs those not on warfarin (3 patients), p=.01.
5) There was a small but significant increased risk of major and minor bleeding episodes in patients on warfarin, however the risk was not significantly different than the rates seen with aspirin alone.
The Evidence: Randomised, blinded trial comparing patients on low dose warfarin, low dose aspirin, warfarin plus aspirin, or placebo alone with a primary endpoint of ischemic heart disease events (deaths from coronary causes or MI); Stroke and overall mortality were secondary endpoints. The patient population consisted of men at increased risk for heart disease, but no prior history of MI or strokes.
warfarin + aspirin warfarin aspirin placebo
IHD (n=1277) (n=1268) (n=1268) (n=1272)
All 71 (8.7%) 83 (10.3%) 83 (10.2%) 107 (13.3%)
Fatal 24 (3.0%) 19 (2.4%) 36 (4.4%) 34 (4.2%)
Nonfatal 47 (5.8%) 64 (8.0%) 47 (5.8 %) 73 (9.0%)
Stroke
All cause 29 (3.6%) 22 (2.7%) 18 (2.2%) 26 (3.2%)
Thrombotic 11 (1.4%) 15 (1.9%) 10 (1.2%) 18 (2.2%)
Hemorrhagic 7 (0.9%) 1 (0.1%) 2 (0.2%) 0
Fatal 12 (1.5%) 5(0.6%) 2 (0.2%) 1 (0.1%)
Total Mortality 103 (12.4%) 95 (11.4%) 113 (13.6%) 110 (13.1%)
Comments:
1) Potential limitations to applying this to clinical practice include difficulty and cost of following patients on warfarin and issues of compliance. The authors point out that the process may be easier and safer with having the goal INR of 1.5.
2) Caution needed in patients with poorly controlled hypertension who seem to be at increased risk for strokes. The increased risk of aneurysms on warfarin raises concerns for need for screening prior to starting treatment which could be costly.
3) BIG POINT: need to weigh costs and benefits. The results are mainly given as relative risk reduction-- overall 5 IHD events could be avoided by treating 1000 men with warfarin and aspirin for one year ( or 3 events with warfarin alone, 3 with aspirin alone). In other words, the NNT with warfarin and aspirin to prevent on IHD event is 21. But, the all cause mortality in the placebo group was 13.1% compared to 12.4% in the warfarin plus aspirin group for an ARR of 0.7% -- The NNT for all cause mortality is therefore 143 ! -- Is this worth the cost and risk??
4) Although aspirin alone decreased the risk for nonfatal IHD events, there was still no difference in fatal IHD events and no difference in overall mortality -- these results are in agreement with prior studies demonstrating no overall benefit for the use of aspirin in primary prevention of IHD.
5) Other potential problems with the study -- large rate of withdrawal, loss of blinding due to minor bleeding events, limited patient population (men only), an overall incidence of IHD that was less than anticipated, and the potential bias of self selection in the initial process.
Reference: Thrombosis prevention trial: randomised trial of low-intensity oral anticoagulation with warfarin and low-dose aspirin in the primary prevention of ischemic heart disease in men at increased risk. Lancet 1998: 351: 233-41.



Aspirin Plus Warfarin Most Effective In Preventing Ischemic Heart Disease

LONDON, ENGLAND -- January 23, 1998 -- How to prevent thrombosis (blood clots) and ischemic heart disease (IHD) without causing serious bleeding has been the underlying question in many studies over many years. A randomised trial involving 5,085 men the United Kingdom?s Medical Research Council's General Practice Research Framework assessed low-intensity oral warfarin and low-dose aspirin in primary prevention of thrombosis.
In this week's issue of The Lancet they report that combined treatment with warfarin and aspirin is more effective in the reduction of IHD than either agent on its own.

In the study, 1,277 men, aged between 45 years and 69 years at high risk of IHD were randomly assigned active aspirin and active warfarin: 1,268 active warfarin and placebo aspirin; 1,268 active aspirin and placebo warfarin; and 1,272 a placebo for both drugs. All events related to IHD including coronary death and fatal and non-fatal myocardial infarction were noted.
In real terms the authors found that about five events of ischemic heart disease would be avoided by treating 1,000 high-risk men with combined warfarin and aspirin for a year; about three episodes when patients are treated with warfarin alone; and three episodes when patients are on aspirin alone. This led the researchers to conclude that their findings add to evidence that aspirin reduces non-fatal IHD and that its effectiveness is enhanced by warfarin.
 
catwoman said:
Karen:
Some tissue recipients are prescribed Coumadin for a short while post-op. This is not uncommon. Some may also be told to take aspirin concurrently.

I have a mechanical valve, so I was prescribed Coumadin. My surgeon & cardio saw no need for me to take aspirin. I don't know what their decision was based on -- the heart cath, my cholesterol levels, etc. I knew pre-op that the mechanical valve would require me to take warfarin, but there was never any talk about possibly needing aspirin.

If you have a potentially life-threatening allergy to aspirin, you should never take it.
BTW, did you have to take epinephrin (sp?) as an antidote for the symptoms?

Marsha, no, I didn't take epinephrin. I wasn't sure until the 2nd episode that it was aspirin that I was allergic to. That time, I was with my family at a family reunion -- rather a long way from civilization. We debated about bolting for an emergency room somewhere, but within a few hours, the symptoms subsided on their own.

The responses to this question have been very reassuring for me. In this AND the other thread. I won't worry about aspirin. And HOPE that coumadin wouldn't be a problem. :) I WOULD be interested in checking for sensitivity to coumadin BEFORE surgery with a mechanical valve replacement...

Thanks!
Karen
 
This question comes up a lot because there is no single right answer. Doctors are no different from other people in that many read one thing and make up their mind and close it to any other opinion.

I have several pages on my website about this.

http://warfarinfo.com/aspirin-warfarin.htm

http://warfarinfo.com/aspirinwithwarfarin.htm

http://warfarinfo.com/warfarin-platelets.htm

http://warfarinfo.com/warfasaclop.htm

http://warfarinfo.com/aspirin-platelets.htm

http://warfarinfo.com/naproxen.htm
 
thanks!

thanks!

to Al for those references! I'm reading and learning a lot... :)

Thanks...
Karen
 
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