Coumadin and horsebackriding

[mupster50]

Hi. My name is Margie and I am new. I am writing to get everyone's opinion regarding horse back riding.

My son Tim, age 28, has had PDA surgery at 10 days old (he weighed 2 pounds). At 5 they did an aortic valve replacement. At 18 they did the Ross procedure. A year ago, he had an ascending aortic aneurysm, so they replaced the ascending aorta, aortic arch, and aortic valve. He has a St. Jude's valve again and of course is on Coumadin.

He still has a high gradient across the pulmonic valve and may need more surgery. They could not do the pulmonic valve at his last surgery because he had a reaction to Protamine (one of the drugs to reverse heparin) and he almost died.

Anyway, my question is do you think he should ride horses or not? The MD says no, cardiologist says no, but my thinking is that quality vs quantity of life is what is important. He misses it so much and was a great release for his anger. I just want him to be happy. I would really appreciate every one else's opinion. Ross gave me his and I really needed to hear it.

They will not allow him to ride at his normal stable as they do not want the responsibility....I think.

Thank you so much,

Margie

 

[Natanni]

Hello and welcome!

My husband is 34 and had his bicuspid aortic valve replaced in Sept 05 with a CarboMedics mechanical valve. He is an avid snowmobilier, has a Harley Davidson Fatboy and we have two 4 wheeler. He has only been anticoagulated for 6 months, but in that time he has snowmobiled more than ever, determined to live life now to the fullest. To be honest, it wears on me big time....but he and our son are having the time of their lives. That said, we did own horses (a paint and an appaloosa) that we sold a few years back. We still would enjoy riding, but Nathan won't ride anymore. He feels that the horses are simply too spontaneous. That is a really hard call...a real personal opinion. I am sure we will have more people chirping in here soon to help.

Again, welcome to our site. I am glad you found us! This place has brought both my husband and myself a wealth of info, support and friendship

Make sure you check out the anticoagulation board, and also do a search on the upper right hand of our screen.

 

[geebee]

Welcome Margie,
I used to live a little north of Pompton Plains and had a couple of friends that lived there. I also used to work in Wayne and Riverdale.
I have ridden horses a number of time since I started on coumadin but have been lucky not to be thrown. I guess it really depends on the horse. Obviously a helmet would be necessary.
I have also ridden motorcycles, raced sailboats, scuba dived, etc. I am not a foolhardy person but I am just one who feels that I went through all my surgeries to enjoy life and I intend to do it. People, who are not on coumadin, die all the time doing these things . Does coumadin potentially create more problems - I guess it does if you have an accident. If you are the unlucky person who falls off a horse, you could be seriously injured with or without coumadin.
I suppose it all depends on how you want to live your life.
Best of luck to your son.

 

[Guest]

Go to a new stable and don't say anything about him being "different".

I have had two patients who trained horses to be ridden. I did not say "break". I had another who got his belt buckle caught over the saddle horn when one was bucking. It broke his pelvis like a chicken wishbone. He has recovered completely. The only thing that was made worse by the warfarin (he said) was that his scrotum filled with blood to about the size of a basketball, but it all resorbed. He sold that horse, but still rides a lot. I live on the plains of eastern Colorado -- this is cowboy country. It would be silly for me to ask people whether they rode horses or not!! I reckon that in New Jersey people are more concerned about getting sued than a kid having a life.

 

[Karlynn]

Ride the horse - wear a riding helmet.

 

[DrAllan]

If I could predict the future, I would be buying a single lottery ticket. The risk of trauma from horseback riding and the added effects of Coumadin are hard to predict. Remember the problem with Coumadin is from increase in oozing from disruption of smaller blood vessels such as capillaries and small veins and arterioles. When large blood vessels are disrupted, they need either direct pressure or surgical ligation are needed. The case that alodwick describes is probably dissection of blood from a retroperitoneal hemorrhage. These have to stop spontaneously and cannot be surgically corrected n most instances. Frequently patients require many transfusions to replace the blood that gets sequestered. In comparison, slow bleeding from the brain has great risk of brain damage. Even a helmet may not protect from this. Being thrown by a horse can cause significant internal bleeding that would be accelerated by Coumadin. Considering your son’s surgery, the tensile strength of the suture line between his aorta and the grafts, is not as strong as an unoperated aorta. Therefore, he is at more risk from a deceleration type injury such as hitting the ground if thrown from a horse. Tearing his repair line would probably be immediately fatal. Again this is somewhat theoretical but needs to be taken into consideration.

 

[Guest]

Dr. Allen - good perspective.

I was an expert witness in a second degree murder case where a guy with an aortic valve etc fell down some steps and died. His head landed in a pile of wood chips. It was unfortunate that the defendent was charged with murder. They were all drunk and the guy just fell.

We can't exactly predict what will happen.

I was thinking from the perspective of so many people being told what they could not do. I was an expert witness where the NYPD was trying to fire an officer just a few months before he could retire. The head of surgery at a prestigious medical school in NYC made a statement that the officer was not fit to stand guard duty at a parade. A woman was told that she couldn't weight lift any more. She went on to become women's power lifting champion of New England. Marty & I helped a guy in New Zealand keep from losing his pilot's license. He was an aircraft salesman and needed to fly the planes around. Oddly enough he could have qualified to fly a plane with 10 people in the US. Why 10? In its infinite wisdom the government decided that this is an acceptable number to kill if his valve fails, but 11 is not!! Another guy was fired from being a truck driver because of warfarin, but I know of many more who were not.

 

[ALCapshaw2]

My understanding is that a Brain Bleed is the greatest risk factor being on Coumadin, with little or nothing that doctor's can do to prevent permanent brain damage and often death.

Internal bleeding is sometimes difficult to diagnose and / or locate, but can usually be treated.

It will be up to your son to decide how much risk he is willing to take to enjoy the things he loves to do.

'AL Capshaw'

 

[gijanet]

Well, now y'all have left me in quite a quandary........

Well, now y'all have left me in quite a quandary........

Katie is very into horses...........well, ponies right now and has been begging to get one. We are looking for a place with a few acres on the outskirts of town, and I was pretty well convinced that I was going to let her get one. 'Course it would have to be twenty years old and deaf, dumb, and blind.........and she would have to ride with a helmet, but now I don't know..........sigh! Riding a horse is one of the greatest joys in life, and I would hate to exclude Katie from yet one more thing just because she's "different." I want her to be able to experience life...........the good things...........she's had way too many of the bad already. ON the other hand, I want my Katie here with me for a long time to come...........can't have my cake and eat it, too, huh?

Ya know, I had a horse growing up, and in twenty years of riding, I was only thrown twice.............but I know, I know, twice might be two times too many..............And to think, I was more worried about Katie getting kicked by a horse than being thrown..........

BTW, welcome to the group, Margie. Hugs. Janet

 

[Ross]

Janet it's another one of "those things". You can deny her the time of her life or allow her to live it and take whatever chances come along. If I were to die doing something I loved to do, then I'm happy. If I die sitting around and never getting to enjoy what life I have, I'm going to be a very unhappy camper.

 

[Blanche]

Margie:
Since your son is an adult it's important that he have all of the infomation that he needs to make this decision. It is his decision to make. When my baby boy was 27, he wanted to do something dangerous (not a medical concern) and there was no way I could talk him out of it. I provided all the materials I could find on the subject and after he read them, he made his choice. Agreee or disagree, I support my son's decisions even though I might have made different ones.
Kind regards,
Blanche

 

[EVELYN]

Hi Margie

I've been following your thread because except for the last 6 years, I've had horses all my life. I know how hard it would have been if I ever had to make that decision.....I can tell you, it was such a huge part of my life, I KNOW what my decision would have been.....keep on riding.

While I absolutely agree with Blanche, it IS his decision, if it were me, I would put some parameters on that decision.....ie., he must wear a helmet, he must not get crazy with galloping, jumping, etc., unsupervised, he must ride with someone if he goes out of the paddocks, and he absolutely MUST have a bombproof horse....(they are out there.)

I don't envy the position you are in, but I know you will make the right decision.

Evelyn

 

[Granbonny]

We raised Arabian horses on our farm for 25 years..so, I know horses. I have been thrown many times..and it was straight over their heads. and back then, I wore no helmet. It was usually when they were spooked...Hubby had one to just decide he didn't want to do what hubby wanted him to do and just laid down and rolled over Hubby. Brood mares were the worse after giving birth....One stuck her head thru the fence, grabbed my then age 2 year old son and tossed him several feet.because we were just standing and looking at her new baby.He still has faint teeth marks on his cheek....so, I will say..unless he knows ..he is getting a good horse...with no bad habits..to find something else he enjoys...Bonnie

 

[Sierra Bob]

Horseback Riding

Horseback Riding

Hi Margie---I rode ever since I was about three years old and I packed into the Hi Sierras for years for as long as a month at a time----until I had my aortic valve replaced with a St. Jude mechanical valve and was placed on warfarin in April, 1999. In September, 1987, I was bucked off on a cattle drive. I ended up with a concussion, dislocated shoulder, a broken pelvic bone, two broken ribs, and a collasped lung. I spent two weeks in the hospital and another two weeks at home before I good go back to work. If that had happened post '99, I wouldn't be typing this post to say life is more important than riding a horse, going on a cattle drive or packing in to the Hi Sierras. It is so easy to get hurt around horses. Regards, Sierra Bob

 

[mupster50]

Thank you all

Thank you all

Thank you all for your imput. Ross, I am sorry about the double post. I did not know I should not do it. Thank you for alerting me.

My son Tim is neurologically impaired. They told me he would be a complete vegetable at birth and to institutionalize him. He has 1/10th a cerebellum (motor center of the brain), is legally blind in one eye, has balance problems, etc.

To make a long story short, he is doing fantastic. Docs could not believe when he sat, walked, talked, learned to ride a 2-wheeler bike (while on Coumadin), walked independently, got his brown belt in karate, and now is a functioning part of society with 2 jobs, one of which is hippotherapy where they use horses for therapy with kids. The parents there love him and he gives them a sense of joy knowing that there is always hope for their own children. He has had 3 miracles in his life. And here we are. He knows the consequences and how hard it is for me to come up with my decision, but I respect him and his decisions. It would absolutely kill me to have something happen to him - especially since he died 3 times at birth. When we left it up to God, He decided to have him live. He has been a great inspiration to all people who know him. Again, I have left this decision up to God too, if there is a place, I guess we will find it.

I am going to let him post here if he wants to, and you may get to meet him that way. I have been a single parent with him since the age of 5 and he has come a tremendous way. The riding was the one thing he loved, and felt so wonderful on the horse, and won at regular competitions with "normal" competitors.

Whoops - got to get back to work. Please, if you have any more suggestions let me know. I am so happy to receive your thoughts and get to know you all. My prayers will always be with you all in this group.

Much love and thanks,
Margie

 

[catwoman]

Margie:

I have a cousin with a mentally & physically challenged son (age 19). She recently separated from her husband of 21 years but has been the primary caretaker & cheerleader for her son since birth. In addition to other medical & neurological problems, my cousin's son was born with mitral valve prolapse. He is active in Special Olympics and church youth groups. So I can understand some of what you have faced.

Have you asked about signing a waiver releasing the stables from liability? Seems that if your son wears a helmet & has a waiver on file, then that would help pave the way for your son to keep riding at the stables and enjoy it while remaining safe.

I'm not a horseman, but if I were, I'd probably wear a helmet. I never wore a bicycle helmet until I got a bike 2 years ago. Just about every serious cyclist wears a helmet; so should horseback riders -- it's much farther to the ground atop a horse!

 

[Sagebrush]

I ride too !!!

I ride too !!!

Margie.....I think that is wonderful what you have done for your son....tears welled up as I read your last post!!! I have heard how wonderful Hipotherapy is!!
I have been riding horses since I was 11 years old. I have competed locally, regionally, nationally and internationally. I wasn't on coumadin till 3 1/2 years ago. Doctor wasn't thrilled that I ride but then I have decided that if I were to die I would rather die riding my favorite horse Joe. I have just a good of chance dieing on my way to work in a car accident or crossing a street. I say go ahead and ride...just ride causally...with a helmet, on a good broke horse and always ride with someone.
You can't what if life to death !!!! Just live life with no regrets !!!

 

[Karlynn]

Margie, what a lovely inspiring story. My brother (whose staying with me now recuperating from hernia surgery) is a mentally disabled adult due to a breach birth w/ cerebral hemorrhage. He's 55. My parents were told he would never walk or talk. They were advised to institutionalize him and forget they had him. He didn't walk until 3. He talks, although not a lot because of his Expressive Aphasia. But he reads encyclopedias, knows more about history and geography than I ever will and has a wonderful dry wit.

I am the person I am because of him. I married the man I did and had the children I have because of my brother being in my life. So I can really relate to the way your son Tim impacts you and those around him. He sounds like an incredible guy. I wish you both well.

 

[gijanet]

Ross, thanks...............

Ross, thanks...............

Janet it's another one of "those things". You can deny her the time of her life or allow her to live it and take whatever chances come along. If I were to die doing something I loved to do, then I'm happy. If I die sitting around and never getting to enjoy what life I have, I'm going to be a very unhappy camper.

I know, I know, no easy answers, but that's the way I feel. I'm about half convinced that I'm gonna let her go for it...............course we have to find a place first and a half dead pony, but anyway............thanks for the support. You so know where I am coming from, unfortunately. Love ya. J.

 

[gijanet]

Wow! Made me cry too..........

Wow! Made me cry too..........

Thank you all for your imput. Ross, I am sorry about the double post. I did not know I should not do it. Thank you for alerting me.

My son Tim is neurologically impaired. They told me he would be a complete vegetable at birth and to institutionalize him. He has 1/10th a cerebellum (motor center of the brain), is legally blind in one eye, has balance problems, etc.

To make a long story short, he is doing fantastic. Docs could not believe when he sat, walked, talked, learned to ride a 2-wheeler bike (while on Coumadin), walked independently, got his brown belt in karate, and now is a functioning part of society with 2 jobs, one of which is hippotherapy where they use horses for therapy with kids. The parents there love him and he gives them a sense of joy knowing that there is always hope for their own children. He has had 3 miracles in his life. And here we are. He knows the consequences and how hard it is for me to come up with my decision, but I respect him and his decisions. It would absolutely kill me to have something happen to him - especially since he died 3 times at birth. When we left it up to God, He decided to have him live. He has been a great inspiration to all people who know him. Again, I have left this decision up to God too, if there is a place, I guess we will find it.

I am going to let him post here if he wants to, and you may get to meet him that way. I have been a single parent with him since the age of 5 and he has come a tremendous way. The riding was the one thing he loved, and felt so wonderful on the horse, and won at regular competitions with "normal" competitors.

Whoops - got to get back to work. Please, if you have any more suggestions let me know. I am so happy to receive your thoughts and get to know you all. My prayers will always be with you all in this group.

Much love and thanks,
Margie

Every time I hear about "our kids" defying the odds. YOu go, girl! YOu find a way to let them let Tim ride and continue to help other kids with special needs. Whether it is a waiver or whatever. Many hugs and I hope you keep us posted as I have gotten attached already. Many hugs. J.