Coaguchek in the UK - the saga continues

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Gemma

Hi,
I'm curious as to whether everybody has as hard a time as Jim seems to be having in convincing their anti-coagulation clinic they are safe to test their INR at home with a Coaguchek monitor (or whatever their preferred monitor is).
When he went for his first INR test at the hospital clinic, they used a coaguchek, so obviously they don't have a problem with the machine itself. Jim's GP thinks it's a great idea for Jim to test himself. However, it seems that the hospital clinic themselves won't agree to it. They prefer the tried and tested "take a pint of blood" (OK, I'm exagerrating. A bit) method which involves waiting hours or even days to find out what the INR is (over in the UK we have a yellow record book which is posted back to the patient when it's been updated - if there's a dosage change they phone the same day, if not it is just posted back - not sure if that's how they do it in the states).
We're currently waiting for some information from Anti-Coagulation Europe, who seem to think their literature will convince the hospital otherwise. I think we need to go and talk to the haematologist about it really. Jim's only 27 and has got (hopefully) several decades ahead of him, which I think he'd prefer to spend without having syringes stuck in his arms every 4-6 weeks. Also testing yourself with a home testing monitor means you can do it more often if necessary, and apparently people who self-test stay in range more of the time, maybe because they're taking more responsibility for themselves?
Can't see why it'd be a problem really - he's a precision engineer for goodness sakes so it's not like he's not mentally or physically capable of operating the machine!!!!!
So, anyway, what I'd particularly like to know is if anybody in the UK has had to deal with this problem, but I'd welcome advice from the USA too. :D How did you convince them you could do it and you weren't going to disappear never to be seen again? How often do you have to have "control" tests at the clinic to prove your monitor is working properly? That kind of thing. Apparently the hospital insurance doesn't cover home-testing, so if Jim had a clot he couldn't sue them... I think they're kind of missing the point - my understanding is if he used it properly he'd be LESS at risk of this happening.
This is really the last hurdle we need to get over on the road to "normality" - I'm not sure if we should just give up or keep banging our heads against the brick wall we've come up against. (OK, I'll do the head-banging - wouldn't want Jim to have a brain haemorrhage :eek: )
Gemma.
 
Hi Gemma,

I live in Ireland and I had an artifical aortic valve fitted 01/10/03. Since I came out of hospital my Gp has encouraged me to use the Coagucheck , ( in fact he got it for me!). Other GPs in the country though are very much against it. I find it great and only have to visit my Gp for a venous sample of blood every month.
 
Hi Fitzy,
Seems like this "postcode lottery" that's always in the news is true.
Do you phone up the clinic/GP with your INR in between the monthly venous tests or did your GP just give you the coaguchek for personal reference?
I suppose Jim could buy one anyway, but the point really is to make sure his monitor's results tally with those at the clinic, so he knows his readings are accurate, and if they won't accept his readings I doubt they'd even check it worked. He's now only having a venous blood test done every 6 weeks as his INR has been in range since December, but I'm sure it goes up and down during that time and testing more frequently with a coaguchek at home could only be a good thing.
Anyway, if diabetics are allowed to test their blood sugar at home why can't the anti-coagulation clinics accept people on warfarin can test their own INR? The test itself is pretty similar to do, and I don't know of any major problems with home blood sugar testing. They even sell the monitors in pharmacies! I foresee a battle on our hands over this one...
 
Gemma

From what I have learnt since my OP, I am lucky to have a GP that is pro- Coagucheck. I just do my test once a week and keep a record of it. Provided its in the target range I dont have to do anymore. Once a month I go to my Gp to have a test done with a venous sample and thats it really. I order any test strips etc from the manufacturers.

I cant say enough about Roche (manufacturers) who have been a great help to me, and their area Rep. was very helpful when I was starting off with the machine.
 
Hi Gemma

I think Tyce is one of the VERY lucky people in that his insurance not only covered the protime unit, but now his coaguchek. It seems that our cardio is pro home testing even though they run a coumadin clinic. We are the only ones in his practice that home checks, but we do keep in close contact if anything is out of line. His nurse actually trained us on the Coaguchek unit....which we're very pleased with. For the first time even we agreed with them last week!!! I think in all the time we used the Protime, we never ever agreed with the clinic....some times a bit off and other times WAY off, so we're hopefully headed on the right track.

Don't give up!!! The end result is DEFINITELY worth the fight you may have to endure. We love home testing, especially when we're going on vacation or on the road for a few weeks at a time.

Evelyn
 
Hey Gemma.....

Hey Gemma.....

Did I hear you say the words 'beating your head against a brick wall?'

OK....Please listen carefully. Do not ask your Doctor about the home-testing machine...TELL HIM you want a prescription for it and that you also want ongoing prescriptions for the strips. I am sick to the teeth of these Doctors who think they know what you should have, what you should know, what you shouldn't know, what you shouldn't have.

Doctors are beginning to have a hard time with the internet. Their 'magical' powers are being eroded because of all this transparency and disclosure. Well, it's time they accepted it cause if your Doctor doesn't like it, go lift those medical cards and find a new Doctor.

You pay your taxes and that's what pays his salary, so although the NHS appears to be free, you are NOT a number anymore, you are a customer and he should be keeping his customer satisfied. If you fail to get satisfaction, simply write to the General Medical Council and lodge a complaint against him.

He's not the only Doctor around, but maybe he's the only egotistical, short-sighted, dictatorial medic who refuses to allow Jim to take care of his own welfare. Anyway, you and I probably know more about INR than he does and neither of us even have an artificial valve. Print this e-mail out and take it with you if you like and ask him to call me and I'll give him his pedigree.

I've 'had it' with Doctor's attitudes in the UK....period. :mad: :mad: :mad:

And don't give up....keep at him..
 
Coaguchek

Coaguchek

Gemma

I had Mechanical AVR in Belfast NI. UK. Home INR testing using Coaguchek, is encouraged by the Hospital - RVH Belfast - for those suitable. I have found it very convenient and would definately recommend it. Keep trying!

Samuel
 
Just a quick one,

I have notice that my Coagucheck Inr reading always slightly differs from the Inr reading from the Hospital (Venous). I spoke with Coagucheck abouth it and they assured me that once my control check is done with the correct reading that my INR reading will be correct. The coagucheck people have told e that their reading would differ slightly in relation with a Venous sample that could be lying in a lab for a few hours. Anyway my GP and I are 100% confident that the Coagucheck is accurate and the differences are very small anyway.

Anyone out there have the same problems?


Fitzy
 
Evelyn - to clarify what I meant about the insurance, Jim would have to pay for the Coaguchek himself, but gets treatment on the NHS free. If he had a problem he wouldn't be able to sue the actual hospital for malpractice as their insurance would not cover them in that instance.
Billy - are you having a bad day? You seem even more angry about this than me!!! The GP is fine with the whole thing, even put the test strips on Jim's prescription for next time around, but it's the clinic we're having trouble convincing and them who manage his warfarin treatment. I'm off work Thursdays though so will try to get us an appointment to talk to the head honcho and not leave until they agree!!!
 
not sure I need home testing!

not sure I need home testing!

Hi Gemma & Jim,

your mention of 'postcode lottery' strikes a chord, and I'm obviously lucky! I'm tested at the village health centre as and when necessary (currently four weeks). Appointment is usually between 9 - 9.30am and the results are printed out back at the surgery for me at around 6pm the same day. If my results are way out of line, the practice nurse will ring me and let me know in case I'm unable to collect the results that evening.

The system here works very well. Whilst I'm not that fond of veinous testing, it seems unnecessary for me at the momnet to press for home testing. I spoke with my GP originally about the concept and she was very supportive, but working along the lines of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I'm happy enough to stick with the current regime.

As for Jim, you stick at it! As Billy said so forcefully, he is the customer here and it could be that the local lab is more concerned about keeping up its' througflow of samples than about patients' health and welfare.

Good luck to you both,

Simon
 
Hey Gemma....

Hey Gemma....

...No, I'm not having a bad day...I'm having a good day!!! I don't have an artificial valve, I just wanted to remind the folks in UK that the system, and Doctor's and Patient's attitudes here are soooooo different to those in USA.

Across the big pond, Patients know a lot more about their health simply because they are customers. With the NHS and the attitude of Doctors here, we have always considered that the Doctor was doing us a favour. Half the time Doctors don't open up with us and explain what's going on - they only tell us what they 'think' we should know.

I've gone through the experience of my wife dropping down dead 10 weeks after heart surgery in1998 at age 44. A lot of the things I should have known before the surgery only came to light long after she died, so obviously I have very strong views about lack of 'transparency' in the medical profession.

No 'bad day' yesterday Gemma.....just wanted to impress on you that now is the time to assert yourself and get some information and some action.

Perhaps I appeared rather blunt, but better now, rather than after the funeral, don't you agree?

Cheers,
 
Billy, I completely agree with you. I'm very lucky that I was brought up to question everything and so if something seems a bit unclear I'll press for answers, which no doubt annoys the doctors! But I've been telling Jim all along he's a customer - he pays his taxes so he should be getting a service, not just fitting in with how patients "should" behave!!
I've been running this round my head all day - what I think may be best is for Jim to write to the Anti-coag doctor, tell her he wants to discuss (in person) the home-testing issue, buy a coaguchek and get them to check his INR results against theirs in the clinic, then maybe go every 6 weeks or whatever to have a venous blood test AS WELL as home-testing more frequently in between. It seems like a lot of people who home-test have venous tests done this often anyway. His GP thinks he's in a pretty low risk group really, and even gave the impression the cardio is using him as a kind of "guinea pig" as he's quite a rare entity (young, fit, healthy, and no sign of heart disease until a year ago - I suppose the majority of his patients would be young children who have major heart troubles at an early age, or older ones whose lifestyle made them ill). That's a side issue though. It's such a shame - the hospital where he had his operation done were light years ahead in so many ways when compared to the one who manages his welfare in the longterm. And they've just been awarded Foundation status - who knows where that will lead!!!!!
Right, off to be assertive now!
Cheers,
Gemma.
 
Go gettem Gemma....

Go gettem Gemma....

'Assertive'....that's what I wanted to hear.

Of course your enquiring mind annoys the medical profession Gemma. Don't you know that they use big words to describe simple things just so that they can impress their patients and avoid anybody finding out what's really going on.

Most Doctors go into panic mode when you ask for clarification on an issue. In their estimation, if they were to tell you the answers, then you would be coming dangerously close to being as knowledgable as they are....and they can't have that. They continue to adopt the attitude that you know nothing about your body and that they know it all. They even think that they know what you should know and what you shouldn't know. In fact in a lot of cases they think that they are one step above God.

I'm surprised that your 'blood woman' didn't start a dissertation on how Jim would need to be trained to operate the coagucheck machine. I heard where somebody suggested that there was a two day training programme for the patient which was included in the cost of the machine. There are a lot of Members on this forum who test their INR's on a regular basis and I think that most of them would agree that a monkey could do it if it had a couple of demonstrations. The most difficult part is after you get a result, when you have to decide whether you should believe the 'expert' who suggests a reading of between 2.5 and 3.0 or the one who suggests between 3.0 and 3.5

Go bite a few ankles and get it sorted...you can do it!!!!!
 
The letter's in the mail!!

The letter's in the mail!!

Right, we've written to the anti-coag clinic letting them know Jim's getting a coaguchek, the prescription strips are all set to be on his next prescription, and he's going to order one on Tuesday (Roche is only open Mon-Fri and it's bank holiday this monday). So then when he's got it he can take it into the clinic and demonstrate his expertise (and no doubt make all the other patients ask why they can't have one too :D :D ).
It's all a bit complicated having to run round asking 3 different people the same questions - but seems that's the way it'll have to be. I'm quite happy to be awkward if it means we get a better long-term outcome. Just don't get me started on the other drugs Jim's taking. His GP told him recently there's no evidence to support someone of his particular medical history and symptoms taking them. Boy, is that cardiologist going to get some questions fired at him when Jim next goes to see him (with me in tow of course!!). OK, they help people over 55 who've had heart attacks or are at risk of one (according to the manufacturer's blurb) - but a 27-year old whose heart problem is "fixed" and who has none of the risk factors for heart disease - no evidence whatsoever... Seems he's on them to prove that they help keep him healthy rather than seeing if he'd be OK without them... but how do you prove he'd be OK without them when the cardiologist won't stop them and the GP won't stop them without the cardio's say-so?????
Watch this space!! Maybe I should get a new career in patient liaison :D
Gemma
 
Hey Gemma....

Hey Gemma....

....I'm proud of you....seeee, I knew you could do it...

...giv'em dixie Girl...show'em what you're made of........

Cheers,
 
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