Calcium question

[wweir]

OK got a question for you all.

In that I am usually up early in the morning I recently saw one of those ?paid advertisements? that are usually on at that time of day. The commercial was all about calcium and what wonderful things it does to us.

My wife has some pills from Andrew Lessman called calcium and magnesium Intensive care. My question is can or should someone on coumadin be taking pills that contain calcium (140mg), magnesium (70MG), Vitamin D (40IU) and Baron (200 MCG)?

I know that I should stay away from Vitamin K but what about other vitamins? I must say this ?Infomercial? was quite convincing about the value of coral calcium.

I did some searching on the web and did not find a clear answer so I figured that I would ask the experts.

Thanks

Walter

 

[hensylee]

Our dear Janie can give you lessons about magnesium. Maybe she (or someone) will pop in to tell you about it. I, too, would love to have a lesson on magnesium. She posted about 2 yrs ago, but I wasn't into that at the time, but sure would love to hear it now. Janie (or someone)?

 

[EVELYN]

Hi Walter


Hope you're doing great!!!

We both take Vit D, Calcium, Ester C, a Multi, B-complex and Tyce takes Magnesium. The only vitamin our cardio did not recommend was E because he said it had something to do with platelets, so when we're finished with this bottle that will stop. We also take a glucosamine/chondroitin for our achy joints. Have had NO PROBLEMS with these and have been taking them prior to and post Tyce's surgery, in addition to his coumadin, lisinopril, hctz and coreg. I believe in vitamins, so take it for what it's worth.

Tyce also takes an aspirin 3 times a week, as per our cardio and has had no problems with it.

Evelyn

 

[MichelleS]

Hi everyone,

Good question, Walter. We know we have to worry about vitamin K, but what about the others? I would like to add some extra B-complex to my daily multi-vitamin. Does anyone know if this would cause a fluctuation in my INR?

Take care!

Cheers,
Michelle

 

[Guest]

Mainly vitamin K is the one to watch out for.

Vitamin E could be a problem (emphasis on could) There are very few reports of anyone actually suffering harm from this.

There are some reports that very high doses of vitamin C lowered the INR. They are onld and I tend to discount them too.

One efficient way of researching this problem is to go to http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en
then in the box "with all of the words" type in warfarin and the other agent you want to look up.

 

[Christina]

Michelle.

I have to keep about the same amount of vitamin K in my diet every day otherwise my INR goes way up.
I've taken B-complex for the past 25 years and continued taking it after surgery, and no change. I am taking 69 different vitamins and minerals every day and my INR was 3.2 last Tuesday.
Just had spinach tonight. YUM!!
Michelle, you might want to check into Seasilver. www.seasilver.com. It is a liquid and has the 69 different vitamins and minerals that the body needs. I am taking it every day, and it tastes like grape juice. Much better than taking the pills.
E-mail me with more questions. [email protected]

Christina
_________________
AVR's 8/7/00 & 8/18/00
Tucson, AZ

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Hi Michelle,

I had run in with straight B-Complex in addition to my mulit. Which is Woman's One A Day. My INR went way up. Then I was told to hold two days. Landed in the hospital on a Heparin drip.

Afterwards I referred to my surgeons manual. It stated that B vitamins could raise your INR. Wish I would have seen that beforehand. My GP recommended it to me...so I did not question it. Since.... I do my own research. I found out the hard many many times that they don't know everything!

 

[JimL]

Even if there is no obvious reaction with warfarin, we should generally be careful about adding any supplement to our diet -- in other words, watch for a change in the INR.

Janie can't post for a while for some reason. The recommended level of magnesium is 500 mg per day. I find that it is the magnesium gluconate that is helpful, not the magnesium oxide. GNC has the right ones (and the wrong ones).

 

[EVELYN]

Hi Jim

Just a quick question: What's the difference between the Magnexsium oxide vs. the gluconate. Where do you buy the gluconate, all I've ever seen is the oxide.

Evelyn

 

[wweir]

Thanks everyone.

Based on what you all advised I am going to take the calcium and magnesium Intensive care pills I referenced, but in evening. I currently take my warfan in the morning when I get up.

Evelyn, great to hear from you and very glad to hear that Tyce is doing well. I also take an 81MG aspirin every day and I have not experienced any problems with it. My INR is still sitting at 3.4

Walter

 

[Blanche]

Walter:
Al and I both take calcium because he has osteoporosis and I have osteopenia. A bone density scan revealed these problems, YET, we had been taking 500mg of calcium everyday....or, almost every day. Apparently, it wasn't enough. We took calcium carbonate, the most difficult calcium to digest and assimilate. My problem may have been caused by too many diet drinks (too much phosperous) and Al's from a vitamin K deficiency (12 years of coumadin). We also took it late in the evening just before bed. Calcium requires hydrocholric acid in the stomach to be digested and absorbed. We tend to have more acid in our stomachs after a meal.....and the amount of acid that normally occurs in the stomach decreases with age.

So, we have problems because we took the least digestable kind of calcium (some articles say 4%), didn't take enough ( MDR is 1,000 mg), didn't take it at the optimal time, and had no idea about the need for acid in the stomach.

You decision to take calcium is, in my opinion, a good one. However, I do wonder if the Andrew Lessman Intensive Care product will do you much good. One capsule has 70mg of calcium, and it is calcium carbonate!!! You'd need 12 capsules a day just to approach the MDR. (Our doctor recommends 1,500 mg per day....21 of Lessman's capsules.) The proportions of magnisium and Vitamin D are good and balanced, but again, they are very little when compared to the MDRs. The MDR for vitamin D is 400IU, Lessman's capsules have 20 IU each.

The whole question of calcium is a complex one, as we have found out through our misadventures. I still believe that almost everyone on anticoagulants should be taking calcium. I don't have recommendations, but I do know what did not work for us then, and why that is so. We now take calcium citrate with magnisium and Vitamin D. My last bone density scan showed great improvement. Albert's showed some improvement.

I hope you find something that will work well for you.

 

[JimL]

Evelyn,
The answer to your questions is basically, I don't know.
I get my magnesium at GNC, which is the name of the store, but I don't know what it stands for; probably most everyone else does.
I used to buy magnesium at Walmart, and I lucked into the kind that works first. I then went back to buy some more, and they didn't have that kind, so I tried a different kind, which didn't work as well. I switched from Walmart to GNC because Walmart didn't stock consistently.
Why does one kind of magnesium work better than the other? Is it just my perception? Perhaps. I don't know any other answers.
I am very skeptical about these vitamins and supplements and herbal remedies, but I started the magnesium right after the amiodarone, and the magnesium is definitely better.
Magnesium also makes sense as a supplement, since the major sources in our diet are the same as Vitamin K, which I don't take.

 

[Ross]

GNC=General Nutrition Center

 

[MichelleS]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the feedback on the B vitamins and I don't think I'll be adding them to my multi-vitamin. My INR has been wonderful for a few months now and I don't want to tempt fate. Gina - I'm so sorry about what happened to you. What a horror story! : ( I was just considering adding it because I've been feeling pretty sluggish. I might consider the seasilver - thanks for the link, Christina.

However, this brings up a question for Al. You mention hidden sources of Vitamin K in another thread. The multi-vitamin I've been taking for years is called One Source. I get it at Wal Mart. It contains 25 mcg of Vitamin K, which is 31% of the RDA. I took this before my AVR and have taken it faithfully ever since. However, would you suggest that I switch to something with no Vitamin K at all? Or is this ok since I've been keeping the amount of Vitamin K consistent? So far I haven't had any problems - I'll admit to never having been a big veggie eater so no chance of loads of Vitamin K through spinach and other greens.

Thanks again for the input. Hope everyone is well.

Cheers,
Michelle

 

[KristyW]

Hi Michelle,

Al will weigh in on this subject when he gets a moment. In the meantime...coumadin/warfarin management is all about consistency. If you've been taking this vitamin since before your surgery and after as well, then I wouldn't change a thing. Your coumadin is already regulated based on your current intake of Vit. K. If you change to another vitamin with a different amount of vitamin K, the you will have to watch your INR for changes.

Hope this is of some help.

 

[MichelleS]

Hi Kristy,

My thoughts exactly - I had AVR four years ago and have been taking the same mult-vitamin ever since. It hasn't caused any problems so I don't think I need to change, but it never hurts to ask the expert. : )

Take care.

Cheers,
Michelle

 

[Granbonny]

Michelle

Michelle

Just my 2 cents. If you are feeling sluggish..and teaching all day...You may need to try to walk, ect. The weather has been awful..especially in Illinois this winter. Here in Georgia too. We have had a few good days this week. Noticed when I am walking more in fresh air. I have a lot more energy. I am age 62, take no vitamins..just try to eat good. My PCP turned me loose last week until August. INR stays right in range. Bonnie

 

[Guest]

"Weigh in" is not a term that I like to use!!!!

I agree that consistency is the name of the game. If you are in balance, don't change.

Where I see trouble with vitamins (particularly Centrum Silver) is when it gets to be the 25th of the month and somebody runs out. Then they don't have money to buy more until the 3rd when the next SS check comes. If I check them about the 30th, their INR will be high (usually around 6). But they are going to start the vitamins again in 4 days sooooooo ... What do I do???

Warfarin is like a teeter-totter you are always going up and down.