Calcium = Calcification???

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Marguerite53

Premium Level User
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
3,635
Location
Oregon
Several days ago, in the Magnesium discussion, Bob (Tobagotwo) made this comment.....
" I'm not taking calcium supplements for fear of sabotaging my new valve."

Being a 50 year old woman, I am, of course, taking calcium supplements. I thought that might be a bad idea once I learned of my aortic stenosis, but 2 different cardiologists have said that calcium supplements do not have any affect on the stenosis or calcification.

Please let me know, anyone, what you have heard about this. Thank you!

Marguerite
 
Bob has taken it upon himself to be the "Resident Doc" of VR.com but has recently had to state in his signature he is not a medical professional. This alone would imply he has been taken to task for his statements masquerading as actual medical facts. While this site is casually informative and supportive for most, some feel they must resort to inundating us with their "Google Search" prowess to validate themselves. Liability issues aside, take most of what you read here with a grain of salt, and consult your physicians for actual health related issues. It is dangerous otherwise. We're all here to support, not preach that which we know nothing, or very little about.
The best to you...
 
FWIW-

I asked my cardiologist about "calcification" of valves (more accurately known as stenosis.) He firmly stated that it had absolutely nothing to do with calcium levels in the body, and recommended that I continue taking calcium supplements (which also contain small amounts of magnesium and zinc) for bone health, as I don't drink much milk.
 
another music lover!

another music lover!

Whoa, Les. I don't want to be snuffing Bob or making him even remotely reluctant to answer my querries. Yes, he has always stated loudly that he is not a professional. That is all ANY of this is worth, casual sharing of information, experience, advice -- from a human level, not professional. AND, he does have a remarkable memory and thorough, as you put it, google search prowess. I am thrilled that someone is out there offering suggestions, links, comments.

I notice that you are born in the same year as me and possibly a Neil Young fan. ("it's better to wear out than to rust") Ever since the cardio showed me the diagram of the perfect aortic valve, noting that it should look like the Mercedes emblem, I've found myself humming...... "oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz" :D

Bill. Thanks. :) That's what I was hoping to hear from somewhere.

More comments welcome.

Marguerite
 
We all appreciate Bob's input and anyone else that is willing to do the research and help us come to terms with all of our questions. Some of us are better at tracking down the information than others and I think we all know that the final word rests with our physicians, but it sure is nice to gain from everyone's experience and be prepared with all the right questions when we do step foot into the doctor's office. :)
 
I have been reading about the process of calcium depositing, and it is rather complex. It hasn't led to conclusions, so I haven't posted about it. From what I've read, no one seems to be sure about what causes it to happen, and as such, I am even less sure.

It does not seem to be relevant to how much calcium is available in the body, but more to the body's process of making it biologically available in the blood for bonding to (coating) "damaged" or compressed tissues.

Or it could be the bone-building-within-the-heart process that one posted article espoused.

I have always been a dairy hound, something that I mentioned in that post (if it's the one I'm thinking of), and I didn't feel that additional calcium for me was a good thing. After all, my experience is that I do bad things to myself with it. I believe I also mentioned in that post (or a similar one) that a woman might want to consider that taking calcium for her might be a different matter.

At one point, I queried a valve manufacturer (who one member had indicated did state that taking calcium was not advised), and posted their response, which simply stated that they had no stance on supplements, including calcium. Of course, it's entirely possible that they had changed their tune when they couldn't prove a link between them.

So, to sum up my current understanding of calcium supplementation and premature valve calcification: I am unaware of any proven link between the two. If you're in danger developing osteoporosis or other calcium issues, you should approach your doctor for a proper course of action, though.

I'm still not taking any extra calcium myself. And I'm not letting go of the rabbit's foot, either. Something's gotta work.


I try to present what I find, Les. With some opinion, to which I'm entitled. I have many times placed in posts that what I have to say should be taken with a large grain of salt. I agree, and I take no offense to that. I'm happy to share the threads with you.

Just for the record, I have not been taken to task in any way for any presentations I have posted or their content. I placed the notification in my signature file so that I would not have to keep finding new ways to say in my posts that I am not a medical professional, which I believe is an appropriate thing to do when discussing health-related issues.

The same goes for my consistent statement that I do not work for the site and do not speak for the site (because of a running gag about vacations with Ross), which may eventually go into my signature file as well.

I would not want anyone to think I even imagine myself to be the voice of VR.com, as it is the lively cacaphony of many voices and opinions that makes it strong. Nor would I want to masquerade as a medical professional. I am a passionate amateur, a status shared gladly with many others on the site.

Besides, despite Ross's entreaties to us, I almost never wind up using Google's search tool at all...

Best wishes,
 
The thought of calcification did cross my mind...only to the fact that my prosthesis after 2 short years was showing signs of calcification. Going on year six.

Like Bob, I am a major dairy hound. Plus...my multi contains added calcium. Women most definitely need the calcium. Last time my levels were checked...they were normal. Between my diet and the little bit of supplementation. Will just stick to that regime. They recommend so much more in the way of intake. If my levels are in range. It does not make sense to think I need to overload to match the RDA.

Especially so that I do have a sinking feeling that calcium in your blood can collect in/ or around your valve. There are a few things I have found to be factual when it comes to this valve stuff. Just by power of deduction. Another phenomenon the "headaches and visual disturbances" we have spoken about. Realistically unless some big wig has "discovered" such phenomenon to be such and it is documented in medical journals. It's all in our head. Or something else is causing it. So tell me, why did I not have these issues before surgery? Hummmm, not certain? Wish we could mark some of our findings and take honorable credit for discovering occurrences before "they" the medical professionals have it all figured out!
 
I ran across where I recently casually referred to my fear of sabotaging my valve in a statement unaccompanied by explanation, Marguerite. I admit to a cringing phobia about calciuremia (I think that's what it's called). Do take your calcium as your doctor suggests, so that you can continue to stand straight and look at him eye-to-eye when you talk to him.

I added a sentence to the post, which is in the recent Heart Talk forum thread about magnesium, to avoid causing further concerns.

Here is a link to the post about the response from Medtronics, which is located in the middle of an interesting thread by KimC also about nutritional and calcium concerns: http://www.valvereplacement.com/forums/showthread.php?p=78683#post78683post78683

Best wishes,
 
Thanks!

Thanks!

Bob, that was a great thread. I read the whole thing! I did just have a very complete blood work up and I think I'll call my physician and see if there were any elevated calcium levels, or at least where I stand. Just out of curiosity.

I am somewhat lactose intolerant (just in the last 10 years) and so I know that I need to get my calcium from different places. (I can still do the harder cheeses, but milk, creams, cream cheese, yoghurt -- they all do a nasty on me)

When I started avoiding those things which upset my system, I started getting mild tremors and muscle twitches. The Romanian physician I had at the time saw a little twitch occurring on my leg, had me open my mouth wide, tapped my cheek (or some seemingly nonsensical "test") and declared me calcium deficient! I started a supplement and it practically changed my life!! The twitches and tremors went away, I became a calm person again, my anxieties melted away. It was like a drug for me! But, if you look at the echo from her cardio back in 1998 and my most recent one, well, it is a dramatic change. That is kind of when the calcification started building. BUT it is also when I apparently had begun menopause, which I am (gratefully and surprisingly easily) just about past!! That is why I was curious as to others' opinions.

I am not going to blame the calcium intake on the calcification nor is anyone here suggesting that I do. Given the broad spectrum of people's experiences, it is virtually impossible to discern what truly causes this stuff to head downhill in people (with the exception of the obvious endocarditis sufferer). Like I said, I was just curious as to what others had heard.

For me, at this point, I'm convinced it was all my hard living as a young adult!! Avoidance in the late 60's and 70's wasn't my greatest attribute and I'm virtually certain that those years, coupled with 3 pregnancies (which were heavensent and turned me right back into a virtuous being) and my lush and lazy lifestyle, helped to buy me my current situation. And you know? That's fine. I wouldn't trade any of it. What I do know is how grateful I am to have found this website. I can handle any of this because of all of you out there. :)

Thanks again!
Marguerite
 
As I understand it, taking calcium suppliments or for that matter consuming foods high in calcium such as milk, meats, broccoli, etc. does not neccesarily lead to calcium buildup in one's arteries. There's a binder of some kind that must be present to make the calcium build up in that manner. I don't recall the specific chemistry to this, however I've heard it described a number of times from a variety of difference sources. it's not just that ingesting "too much" calcium would lead to clogged arteries or whatever, there's more to it and anyone who is at risk for bone loss and such should be getting as much calcium as they can get their hands on.


There is some evidence to suggest that genetics has a role to play on who is more suceptible to calcium related conditions, whether it's osteoparosis (I'm SURE I spelled that wrong) or hardening of the arteries or whatever. Some people don't process the calcuim in their system as effectively and deposits can for in various places where it shouldn't be forming. Calcium causes stuff like bone spurs and problems in muscle fibers as well as cirulation and heart issues, kidney or gall stones, and all kinds of other fun things that we really don't need on our lives.

But on the other side, you need calcium to be healthy.


Ask a doctor about whether or not you should be taking ANY kind of suppliment. Many suppliments may cause problems with the medications you're on, that alone, without the calcium issue, is enough to clear it with a doc. Most multi-vitamins (at least the ones I saw when I was at my pharmacy today and looked through them while waiting for my 'scrips) have vitamin K and we all know that's something to tread lightly around when on anticoagulants...


As for Bob "bashing," We all here have a wide range of experience and knowledge in relation to our heart conditions and all KINDS of other stuff.

You ask me some time about the 'cello and I'll answer just about anyhting you want to know. Ask me about digital photography and I can do the same thing, or programming your VCR or cable television law or or or...


That's the whole point. We're all hear to share our experiences, learn from eachother. Part of that experience is knowledge, either picked up from first hand experience or from "formal education" or from personal research on-line or in books at the library or whatever. We all scan right to the articles about advancements in heart surgery and heart disease in the papers or magazines. We all have a friend or family member with cancer, who's had a heart attack, who's been pregnant... We share that information, not as if we are THE authority on the subject, but as someone who has some experience beyond the person asking the question.


Nothing in here should be taken as gospel unless it comes from Ross (had to do that!) or Al Lodwick (or whoever else in here has a PhD or something hanging in their office) and if you don't understand that, maybe you should be more careful over what you're reading and doing based on what you've read.


I have a friend who used to say, "I saw it on TV so it must be true."

Last week, here in the newspaper office, I adapted it to fit a conversation we were having in the editorial department, "I saw it on the Internet so it must be true."

If you really believe that, even for a second, you've got your head too deep in the sand.
:D
 
ostriches bury their heads in the sand? untrue!

ostriches bury their heads in the sand? untrue!

:D Yes and I just learned that an ostrich's brain is SMALLER than his eyeball!!!!!! :D :D

:) Thank you Harpoon!! Exactamundo!! :)

Marguerite
 
Hi,

According to my PCP taking calcium chews: 1) help women who suffer from PMS mood disorders; 2) prevent bone-loss; and 3) have not been shown to increase atherosclerosis. That is, studies have not linked the two.

He said that calcium ions in the blood "catch" on damaged, defective or aging valves that leak. You know what the end result is.

He also said look at Bill *******'s diet for a window into the Baby Boomer's impending tsunami: all those trans fats, overprocessed foods, etc., are finally catching up with Americans.

Take a look at sugar, too. The New York Times "Science" section had a story on new research proving how "high-normal" sugar levels promote heart disease. (We all know that diabetes is a killer, but my favorite ice cream that I eat every night?)

Can I ask you guys something? The surgeon, (the same dork who tried to pressure me into a coke confession) said that the small size of my valve was probably an underestimate because of the regurgitation, i.e., the size is probably larger than 1.5. Has anyone been told that before? I thought the echo reader took blood flow into consideration when estimating the valve size? Obviously, this is an important question, especially given that I'm having chest pain with heavy exertion. The symptom is either due to the valve or heart damage from the pregnancy last year.

BTW, my first cardio on the island is still under investigation for alcoholism. This is the guy I told you about in a previous post -- he showed up drunk in the ER and tried to treat a heart attack victim before another cardio and nurse stopped him. The story was and still is all over the local paper. I may end up suing this guy for misdiagnosing me last year. (And I'm not a litigious person, but hey ... this is my life).

Best,
 
hmmm

hmmm

Hi, Kim.

I had a similar statement on an echo report, but mine stated that a "1.2 was probably an overestimate due to large LVOT diameter provided". It seems that their calculations are only accurate when they have an accurate read on all the visualizations they use. If something isn't clearly visible, and they have to make approximations there seem to be gaps. 6months later a different tech found me to have the 0.9 cm squared, so it would appear that the overestimate was indeed an overestimate, or I've changed in that amount of time. Who really knows! Then, to boot, before this last 0.9 reading, the cardio said that the 1.2 overestimate might have meant that they overestimated the severity of the condition of the aortic valve opening, meaning, maybe the opening was actually larger!!! Go figure!

One thing you might try. I was very conversational with the most recent tech. I asked a zillion questions and he was kind enough to answer them in terms of how he was making the reading and what he was seeing. Perhaps you could try calling the office and ask to speak to the tech. He or she would be able to tell you how they do their calculations and what they are looking for and what they sometimes cannot visualize and why. Even if they don't have your specific numbers (which might chill them to the idea of discussing things with you) you might be able to come to a deeper understanding of the mystery of the calculations. I think you will find that it's better than a guessing game, but not as specific and perfect a read as you would have hoped, given the seeming sophistication of the technology.

I feel like I just wrote a bunch of gobbledy ****. Hope it made some sense!

Marguerite
 
Oh!

Oh!

Oh, and Kim, thanks for the explanation of the ions catching of defective valves. Still won't be giving up the calcium as I know I need it.

I've been reading a lot about sugars lately and with South Beach diet zeroing in on them as a culprit, and the Glucose Index of foods being a great way to think about how you choose what you eat, I've definitely been changing my everyday diet. I can't eat ice cream (lactose intolerance) much so that's not a loss for me. But I do miss my crusty white bread and olive oil and my white rice!! I must say, cutting out much of those things has helped me feel much better! I don't weigh any less yet, but I'm working on that at the track. I know that is not a concern for you.

Anyway, borrow a copy of the South Beach Diet and read all he has to say about food choices. It's very educational.

M.
 
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