Brain Damage?

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L

Lucidus

I read an article that there is a new study about using Xenon to reduce brain damage that is caused in about 50% of patients who undergo Bypass surgery. This is from being on the bypass machine apparently. Is there any correlations to brain damage in valve repair or replacement patients? I'm new to this board and new to the prospect that Mitrval Valvle Repair (or replacement) is coming my way very soon...
Thanks,
Tim Potter
 
It isn't just bypassers - it's those who are put on heart/lung pump. We speak of this subject often. No brain damage that we know of. The thought of the medical community is that while on the pump mini clots are slammed against the brain causing mini strokes, leaving some memory problems. (Drs fondly refer to us as pumpheads) But as you read these posts, you will find that all of us are fine (I had bypass, but the others had valve replacement). We joke about our memories a lot but it is mostly just laughing at ourselves about forgetting where we put the keys, etc. Not to worry, you will be just fine. Others will come along and voice their opinions. Welcome to our home. God bless
 
thanks

thanks

Thanks for the response. Yes I understand it may affect your memory a bit, but at 31 I already have the memory of a 90 year old! Seriously though, I forget things ALL the time. Drives my wife crazy. So that it why I was concerned about this. I can barely remember on Monday what I did Friday night most weeks... But maybe there's another issue altogether there...
 
time on the machine

time on the machine

By the way - I assume the less time on the machine, the less likely there is cause of brain damage? And is this mostly a temporary issue?

You would think in the year 2002 they would have a better machine or a better method to perform this surgery!

I guess that proves wrong those who think we are already such "masters" of science. Yes we can do a lot - but yes we have a long way to go in some areas...
 
Hi!

Welcome to our site! My husband has two TIA's prior to his surgery (these are mini mini strokes). He was not on coumaden at the time. Post surgery, yes, he has some memory problems.....but frankly not worse than mine! He forgets words sometimes.......and at times he forgets where he put things. But, most of the folks here on the site do have these problems. He had dual valves installed, so was a bit longer on the machine than you probably will be. Don't worry, it hasn't been a huge problem for anyone here that I can remember (hohoho).
Best of luck!
Marybeth
 
I think I hold the "record" here for time on a heart/lung machine--10 hours during a 14 hour surgery. I am unaware of any memory problems at all, and have had no adverse effects since I was released from the hospital. Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't risks with the whole process, but I think problems are more related to thinks like TIA's and reactions to anesthetics than to time on the pump. Also, I know I was given a range of drugs to minimize damage, but I'm not sure what the names of those drugs are.

--John
 
Hi Lucidus-

Welcome to this fantastic site. You'll get a ton of info. here. You can ask anything you want and you'll be sure to get lots of answers from those who've been there and those who've watched from the other side of the hospital bed.

My husband is the patient here and he has had 3 valve surgeries, 2 lung surgeries plus a host of other surgeries and pretty bad medical things. He does have some memory loss, but like what has been said before, nothing major, just nagging little things. What I have found is that his memory gets much worse when he's not feeling well from some kind of major problem or other. As he gets better, so does the memory. I really believe that it has a lot to do with the oxygen in the blood and amount of moving around he is able to do. When he's ill, he's sedentary and as things improve, so does the bloodflow and oxygenation of the tissues throughout the body.

He has also had hemolytic anemia from the action of the mechanical valves (he has 2), one of which is an old behemoth of a model which is pretty good at chopping up blood platelets. He takes folic acid for that. Anemia doesn't help memory either.

Getting the lungs to puff up and work to their best is extremely important for optimum health. That's why they stress the spirometer after surgery so much. Lungs can become decompensated during illness and it's my own opinion that unless the patient works hard on recouping some of that action, they'll remain in a slightly deteriorated condition.

Anesthesia and other OR meds can cause a lot of bad symptoms after surgery and they seem to stay in the body for a long time.

Well, didn't mean to go on so long, but I've given this a lot of thought throughout the years that Joe has been battling heart problems.

Good luck and I hope to see you here often.
 
The surgeon who performed my recent AVR told me that the quality of the filters can affect this phenomenon. I also noted a comment in my lab report about a 'debubling' procedure.

I suggest you ask your surgeon about this issue and what HE does to minimize the effects.

'AL'
 
Written last year by Dr R Fogoros - over in About.com - cardiology/heart disease. Of course, bypass and valve replacement are two different animals, as often mentioned in Vr. Dr Rich mentions only bypass, but heart/lung machine is a heart/lung machine, right? It's an enlightening article. Dr Rich is an EP, author, teacher, lecturer, etc. etc. You can go check him out, if you like.


Pump Head: Mental impairment after bypass surgery
By DrRich

A study from Duke University, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in February, 2001, confirms what many doctors have suspected, but have been reluctant to discuss with their patients: A substantial proportion of patients after coronary artery bypass surgery experience measurable impairment in their mental capabilities. In the surgeons? locker room, this phenomenon (not publicized for obvious reasons) has been referred to as "pump head."

In the Duke study, 261 patients having bypass surgery were tested for their cognitive capacity (i.e. mental ability) at four different times: before surgery, six weeks, six months, and five years after bypass surgery. Patients were deemed to have significant impairment if they had a 20% decrease in test scores.

This study had three major findings
1) Cognitive impairment does indeed occur after bypass surgery. This study should move the existence of this phenomenon from the realm of locker room speculation to the realm of fact.
2) The incidence of cognitive impairment was greater than most doctors would have predicted. In this study, 42% of patients had at least a 20% drop in test scores after surgery.
3) The impairment was not temporary, as many doctors have claimed (or at least hoped). The decrease in cognitive capacity persisted for 5 years.

The mental impairment was not due to the patients' age (which averaged 61). The results from the Duke study were compared to results from a similar study among patients of the same age who did not have bypass surgery. The decline in mental capacity in those who had bypass surgery was 2 -3 times higher over five years than in patients who did not have surgery.

The authors could not say what, exactly, caused the impairment in mental capacity. The most common speculation is that the mental changes are due to the showering of the brain with tiny particles (microemboli) related to the use of the bypass pump (the heart/lung machine, that oxygenates and pumps the blood while the heart is stopped during surgery.)

If this is the case, then newer surgical techniques such as ?beating heart surgery? (in which the bypass pump is not used) should help to minimize the problem. The Duke study was completed prior to the use of such procedures.

But there are other possible causes for mental impairment, including the ?trauma? of surgery (any surgery) and general anesthesia in patients whose vascular disease is almost never limited to the heart, and the breaking loose of fatty deposits from the aorta when sewing the bypass vessel to the aorta.

What will doctors think about this study?
Doctors can be expected to react to the Duke study with mixed feelings. Doctors generally consider themselves scientists, so anything that advances medical knowledge is something they feel they should embrace. However, this is a tough one.

There will be two general types of responses to this study among doctors.

Group A. While the Duke study was extremely well designed (and so it will be difficult to attack it on procedural grounds), voices are already being raised expressing dismay that patients might get the wrong impression from this study. You will almost certainly hear 3 major arguments from these doctors:

1) Cognitive impairment happens, but 42% is way too high. In our hospital, the risk is much lower.

2) This study was done on patients operated on at least 5 years ago, and our surgical techniques have improved a lot since then.

3) Publicizing this study will frighten patients away from having bypass surgery, surgery that saves thousands of lives every year. So let?s accept the data and work to improve the problem, but let?s not make a big deal about it, lest we frighten our patients into making bad decisions.

Group B. Other doctors will take the study at face value, and like the doctors from Group A will work to come up with solutions to the problem. But in the meantime, when deciding whether to recommend bypass surgery to a patient, these doctors will factor a 42% risk of some degree of cognitive impairment into the equation. And they will make sure their patients are aware of all the risks.

What should patients think about this study?
Choose your doctor from Group B. When making major decisions ? such as whether or not to have a major procedure like coronary artery bypass grafting ? you want a doctor who will take into account all the potential risks and benefits.

The Duke study is the best information available right now, and must be taken into account. So when considering bypass surgery, make sure you have the answers to the following questions:

- Is the surgery likely to prolong my survival, or is it being done electively, simply to relieve symptoms?

- Are there any other viable alternatives, such as medication, angioplasty, or stenting? (This question is becoming particularly relevant, with stent technology advancing as rapidly as it is.)

- If I must have bypass surgery, is there any reason I can?t have some form of minimally invasive surgery where the bypass pump is avoided? (While it is not proven that the bypass pump causes the cognitive problem, it does seem to be the leading suspect at this point.)

If you do need to have bypass surgery, keep in mind that the majority of patients in the Duke Study had no significant deterioration their mental capacity, and further, of the ones who did, many never noticed it in their day-to-day lives.

Nonetheless, if you are told you ought to have bypass surgery, unless it is vital that bypass surgery be performed immediately, the Duke study ought to provide one more reason to seek a second opinion before choosing this option.
 
Welcome Tim!

Welcome Tim!

Hi Tim,
Welcome to VR.com! My name is Jean and I live in Princeton, MN.

I had mitral valve repair surgery exactly 12 weeks ago today, and am pretty much back to my old (new and improved) self now. It was done by Dr. William Northrup at Fairview Southdale in Edina.

I too was told that if they weren't able to repair it, I would need an artifical valve, but luckily Dr. Northrup was able to do the repair, and sent be home with all my original parts, along with a synthetic valve ring and some stainless steel chest wires.

Feel free to email me or send a personal message if you'd like. I'll try to answer your questions, Jean:D
 
I find it most convenient and very helpful to have a bona fide excuse for forgetting things, which I've been doing for a long time before surgery anyway.
 
Hi Lucidus,

Just wanted to welcome you to the site..

Ummmmm... Now ... What was your question? I seem to have forgot while trying to post.


Rob
 
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Dain Bramage?

Dain Bramage?

I have no idea what you're talking about. You would think that in this year of 1999 that we....what? It is? Oh.

Nevermind.

;)
 
Dave - ROFL heeheehaahaahee - had to re-read your post 3 times to 'get it' - hawhaw Best laugh I have had this week! Or is that today - or last week, maybe.
 
YOu guys are gonna scare him! I lost my keys and still have not found them...I have been looking for two weeks! At least I haven't driven to the wrong place lately, but it'll happen again. I am the classic example of the pumphead! Good luck!
 
Joann is in second place on pump time. She was one for around 6 hours. She had a stroke prior to the 98 surgery, but had around 20 TIA's. This was caused by the scar tissue from the previous surgery 27 years earlier.

Her memory is nearly normal, but she does have problems with concentration when she reads.

Fortunately, she remembers good things about me and forgets the bad. Her new disease is "Sometimers".

We all need to take time and laugh.

Forgot to tell you that they terminated a doctor in our hometown last week. He was singing, "I wish I were an Oscar Meyer Wiener" while he was writing the report for his latest female patient. No pump run excuse either.
 
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