Blood sugar levels , stress hormones , over exercise; Heads Up

[d333gs]

Thanks for all the info everybody, I'll look at it all!
My A1c was up in the 8s when it was noticed about ten years ago. My slim non sugar eating mother had the same diagnosis at about the same age. Genetic clockwork?
I will keep you up to date on my post bike ride sugar levels .

My intention with the original post was intended to focus on over exercise and the resulting release of unwanted stress hormone levels, especially for us sport-oriented newbies.
I have not researched the effect of stress hormones on the heart but I am assuming it is not good.
And I wanted to give a heads up to any other board members who are monitoring glucose levels and are getting confoundingly high post-exercise numbers, that overdoing it is likely the reason.

PS; My numbers may have been a source of alarm to some of you. There are two measuring sets of numbers for blood glucose levels.:mmol/L and mg/dL ; 1 mmol/L = 18 mg/dL. In France it is mg/dL. In the hospitals here 80 is often referred to as 8 , 120 as 12 . In general , here, 80 mg/dl or 8 is a good number whereas 8 mmmol/L would be high. My apologies

PS 2 ; The Med diet is great! I am living in the middle of it!

 

[Paleowoman]

And I wanted to give a heads up to any other board members who are monitoring glucose levels and are getting confoundingly high post-exercise numbers, that overdoing it is likely the reason.

Bonjour @d333gs - Did you notice that bit I highlighted in bold in previous message from Diabetes UK about Prof Tim Noakes, one of the authors of 'Diabetes Unpacked' and a Prof of sports medicine, who wrote about his diagnosis of Type 2 when a study in a research paper he wrote showed his blood sugar levels rose sharply with intense exercise on a high carbohydrate diet whereas this response was blunted on a low carb diet.
And:

PS; My numbers may have been a source of alarm to some of you.

Er yes Big alarm ! If you'd written 80 I would have realised you were using US numbering ! I thought you were using UK or European numbering !

PS I’ve just been in southern France near the Med for three weeks (very sadly selling our house there ) Fantastic food - all low carb, lots of meat, especially really delicious pork (nothing like UK pork) and chicken, and delicious cheeses, especially goat and sheep's cheeses, and the most fantastic local grown asparagus, I couldn’t get enough of it. We did hill walking every day, very strenuous hill walking too. Only used the car once in all three weeks as walking instead.

 

[d333gs]

Bonjour @d333gs - Did you notice that bit I highlighted in bold in previous message from Diabetes UK about Prof Tim Noakes, one of the authors of 'Diabetes Unpacked' and a Prof of sports medicine, who wrote about his diagnosis of Type 2 when a study in a research paper he wrote showed his blood sugar levels rose sharply with intense exercise on a high carbohydrate diet whereas this response was blunted on a low carb diet.
And:

Er yes Big alarm ! If you'd written 80 I would have realised you were using US numbering! I thought you were using UK or European numbering !

PS I’ve just been in southern France near the Med for three weeks (very sadly selling our house there ) Fantastic food - all low carb, lots of meat, especially really delicious pork (nothing like UK pork) and chicken, and delicious cheeses, especially goat and sheep's cheeses, and the most fantastic local grown asparagus, I couldn’t get enough of it. We did hill walking every day, very strenuous hill walking too. Only used the car once in all three weeks as walking instead.

Hi Palio, I am using the numbers they use here in France! It can all get confusing in Europe.... like the electrical plugs country to country and reversed color codes on gas and disiel handles at the fill up pumps!

Too bad you have to sell , I prefered a united UK Europe.

 

[Paleowoman]

Too bad you have to sell , I prefered a united UK Europe.

Brexit hasn’t helped. We will be back in the Languedoc, we’ll rent a gîte for holidays but that won’t be the same as owning a little bit of France We had our place there for nearly twenty years and felt a little bit French, especially as people there are so friendly.

 

[Chuck C]

Thanks for all the info everybody, I'll look at it all!
My A1c was up in the 8s when it was noticed about ten years ago. My slim non sugar eating mother had the same diagnosis at about the same age. Genetic clockwork?
I will keep you up to date on my post bike ride sugar levels .

My intention with the original post was intended to focus on over exercise and the resulting release of unwanted stress hormone levels, especially for us sport-oriented newbies.
I have not researched the effect of stress hormones on the heart but I am assuming it is not good.
And I wanted to give a heads up to any other board members who are monitoring glucose levels and are getting confoundingly high post-exercise numbers, that overdoing it is likely the reason.

PS; My numbers may have been a source of alarm to some of you. There are two measuring sets of numbers for blood glucose levels.:mmol/L and mg/dL ; 1 mmol/L = 18 mg/dL. In France it is mg/dL. In the hospitals here 80 is often referred to as 8 , 120 as 12 . In general , here, 80 mg/dl or 8 is a good number whereas 8 mmmol/L would be high. My apologies

PS 2 ; The Med diet is great! I am living in the middle of it!

Thanks for the clarification. That changes everything. When you said that you were typically 12 pre-ride that was a huge concern. I figured you could not possibly be talking mg/dl, because that would be a death sentence hypo. So, in mmol/L that would be realistic, but very much in the diabetic zone. I had no idea that in France they drop the last digit in the reading. Good to know and glad to hear it, as that is a much more normal range that you have shared. It also explains why you get concerned about hypos when you drop down to 7, which equals 70 mg/dl.

I have noticed a similar bump when I exercise intensely, although not as high. Typically I might be around 105 mg/dl pre exercise and it would not be unusual for me to be at 115- 120 mg/dl for a couple of hours following exercise. On the other hand, if the exercise is light, such as a walk, I do not see this rise.

Please keep us posted on your results. For what it's worth, I don't think that a short term rise to 140 mg/dl following exercise is anything to be alarmed about. Although limiting the amount of intense work outs is probably a good thing in the overall picture, IMHO.

 

[carolinemc]

My A1c is 5.2.

Hypoglycaemia is usually defined as under 3.9. If you feel uncomfortable with a blood glucose level of 7 that will surely be because you are not used to that level and that you must be used to being on higher blood glucose levels - which means diabetes.

You haven’t told us what you usually eat. What do you mean by low carb ?

I adopted a very low carb diet soon after my diabetes diagnosis and it was because of that diet that my diabetes has gone. I still eat that way despite being non diabetic now because I like this way of eating and I eat extremely well too. I hardly ever eat salads - boring ! I eat meat, fish, eggs, cheese, cream, some nuts, non starchy low carb vegetables eg asparagus, cabbage, kale, cauliflower, courgettes, broccoli, aubergine, peppers, okra, and fats, eg butter, olive oil, coconut oil, avocado oil, which I add loads of to food for cooking - that gives me a lot of energy. I do not eat bread, rice nor any other grain foods nor foods made from them, nor any foods with sugars of any sort, nor high carb starchy vegetables eg potatoes, carrots, nor fruit.

You might find this book of interest, Diabetes Unpacked by Prof Tim Noakes and others: Diabetes Unpacked: Just Science and Sense. No Sugar Coating (English Edition) eBook : Noakes, Tim, Fung, Jason, Teicholz, Nina, Kendrick, Malcolm, Harcombe, Zoë, Cywes, Robert, Gerber, Jeff, Cummins, Ivor, Unwin, David, Zinn, Caryn: Amazon.fr: Boutique Kindle

Prof Tim Noakes has written several books on exercise and diet and has an interest in diabetes. He is emeritus professor in the Division of Exercise Science and Sports Medicine at the University of Cape Town. I copy this excerpt from Diabetes UK website about Tim Noakes: "Prof Noakes gives a brief account of how he developed a passion for running and how ended up researching in the field of exercise science. This brings him on to a paper he produced, the results of which he says could have allowed him to diagnose his insulin resistance (or type 2 diabetes) in his twenties rather than in his fifties. This paper, in which Prof Noakes was himself a subject, showed his glucose levels rose sharply with intense exercise, despite high insulin levels, on a high carbohydrate diet, whereas this response was blunted on a low carb diet. Following this and a string of other studies on carbohydrate metabolism, Prof Noakes became a world authority on the subject” (My bold)

Hate to put a frown on your face, but you are still a diabetic, but in the controlled range. You can change diet, exercise and not take meds, but you are still diabetic. Just like an alcoholic, you can stop the drinking, but one sip makes you alcoholic. Sorry but it is truth.

 

[carolinemc]

Good morning (from me here in Australia)



so basically you didn't measure before ... so if that's the case you can't be sure of what it was so its hard to call a spike

I'll call your attention to this article (which gives quantitative data)

https://beyondtype1.org/dehydration-blood-sugar/

• Mild to moderate levels of dehydration—especially during hot weather, intense exercise, or illness (diarrhea or vomiting)—can easily spike your blood sugar 50 to 100 mg/dL or higher.

so I'm going to apply Occam's razor here and say that in the absence of data this theory could well be the answer not least because it entirely fits your situation as well as your reports. I think it provides an answer that's more simple and applicable to your stated situation.

I would also suggest you follow this guidance from that:

Beware that hydration fluids like Gatorade and Pedialyte can contain sugar—read the nutrition labels carefully and talk to your doctor about potentially dosing insulin with the hydration beverage or choosing the “zero sugar” or “low sugar” options.​

lastly according to what we classify things as in Australia you are past pre-diabetic and into diabetes. You should pay attention to that and react accordingly to preserve your health. You may still have some functioning in your pancreas but you are in insulin resistance territory.

Best Wishes

And an added suggestion, be sure to hydrate properly. For in the heat the indexes go crazy and the UV can cause problems. Just use caution.

 

[carolinemc]

That's excellent, especially for someone who was previously diagnosed with diabetes.

I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes in 2019. Looking back at my previous bloodwork, it turns out that I had been pre-diabetic for at least 8 years, but no physician had ever brought it to my attention. It's really a medical blind spot, as control and reversal is much easier when a person is still in the pre-diabetic range. Medicine tends not to pay much attention until a person crosses the diabetic threshold, unfortunately, and by that point pancreatic beta cell function is typically significantly impaired.

I eat similar to you. I would describe it as a Mediterranean whole foods diet. I avoid almost all sugars and processed foods. By testing at 1 hour and 2 hours after every meal, I was able to determine which foods to avoid or limit, which tend to be starchy high carb foods which are high on the glycemic index. But, I do like my salads. I just finished off a large Mediterranean salad with wild caught Sockeye salmon. For oils I tend to favor olive oil and avocado oil.

My A1c has been 4.9% to 5.1% for the past 2 years. So, my doctor tells me that I've reversed my pre-diabetes, based on A1c and fasting blood glucose levels. But I still continue to eat this way, as I enjoy it so much. Also, the real test is the post meal blood glucose and I know that, even though I no longer technically have the diagnosis, in reality my post meal blood glucose levels will still rise to the prediabetic levels if I slip up and eat high glycemic index foods.

A book which I would recommend is Jenny Ruhl's Blood Sugar 101. Very much science based. She talks about the 5% club, which is folks who have diabetes but who aim to have their A1c under 6.0%.

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Sugar-...4458801&sprefix=blood+sugar+10,aps,164&sr=8-1

It is better once control is achieved to keep doing what works and stay consistent. And always know you will always be diabetic, but controlled.

 

[Paleowoman]

Hate to put a frown on your face, but you are still a diabetic, but in the controlled range. You can change diet, exercise and not take meds, but you are still diabetic. Just like an alcoholic, you can stop the drinking, but one sip makes you alcoholic. Sorry but it is truth.

Well it's certainly in remission

 

[carolinemc]

Well it's certainly in remission

for sure

 

[pellicle]

Hi

PS; My numbers may have been a source of alarm to some of you. There are two measuring sets of numbers for blood glucose levels.:mmol/L and mg/dL ; 1 mmol/L = 18 mg/dL. In France it is mg/dL. In the hospitals here 80 is often referred to as 8 , 120 as 12 .

I guess you missed my first question in my first reply or chose not to answer it.

I'll call that evidence of how you value my input.

A bientot mon ami.

 

[d333gs]

"I guess you missed my first question" Pell, I guess I did ! What was it?

 

[d333gs]

" what was your blood glucose level before the ride (should be still in the machines memory at this early stage)? "
No test done , but I will in the future. My pre ride meal is at lunch and is usually mixed salad, chicken added sometimes.
As I have said, up until this point, my intense exercise has burnt sugar down to the 80s.My issues up to now has been burning too much sugar by mid ride which leaves you sweety and lightheaded and requires a stop , a rest and a sugar cube. The preride banana has resolved this problem for many years now. Getting a reading in the 140s post exercise was a FIRST in my ten years as a D2er. A one time reading like this I would blow off , but not 3 consecuative times, and it happens to be post AVR ........

 

[Paleowoman]

Bonjour,

Have you read what I quoted twice from Diabetes UK re Prof Tim Noakes, a professor of sports medicine and exercise who has written extensively about diet and exercise, who discovered he was diabetic when his glucose levels rose sharply with intense exercise when he was on a high carbohydrate diet, that is a high carb diet generally not just before exercise. (He reversed that by adopting a very low carb/high fat diet - which is how I got my diabetes into remission too and how I keep it that way).

You also haven’t told us your usual diet yet, that is not just before a cycle ride but throughout the day, every day. Your salad pre ride maybe certainly be low carb but the rest of the time ? Having half a banana to raise your blood glucose may show that your body is generally using carbs for energy, so when you’ve used them all up you will get either low blood glucose or your liver will release glucose. Livers seem to release too much glucose in diabetics (it's to do with glucagon relesed by pancreas) and so raise blood glucose too high (my fasting blood glucose levels were high when I had diabetes).

 

[d333gs]

Hi Paleo; I am eating a med diet in general all the time with very limited dairy and red meat.

 

[d333gs]

Short, high-intensity running substantially stresses the body

This is making sense to what is going on;
I was going all out for an hour and a half.

" The rise in cortisol level was accompanied by a reduced sensitivity to the hormone insulin, which is important in regulating blood sugar. "

https://liu.se/en/article/kort-och-snabb-loptur-stressar-kroppen-ordentligt

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi Paleo; I am eating a med diet in general all the time with very limited dairy and red meat.

Hi @d333gs - What about carbs ? Dairy as in cheese has zero to minute amounts of carb, and red meat contains none which is good when you're diabetic or pre-diabetic. What carb foods and how much of them do you eat ? They are the most important factor when it comes to blood glucose levels and controlling them.

 

[d333gs]

Hi @d333gs - What about carbs ? Dairy as in cheese has zero to minute amounts of carb, and red meat contains none which is good when you're diabetic or pre-diabetic. What carb foods and how much of them do you eat ? They are the most important factor when it comes to blood glucose levels and controlling them.

Cholesterol! I have two just under 30% blockages; Cardio said Statins and diet can shrink them a little bit. We eat pasta a couple of times a week , duck , chicken and fish weekly once at at least. I will have all grain toast some mornings, apples, bananas.......eggs ....... winters ; lots of chicken , duck and veg & bean soup.
What is your diet like? Did you have any weight issues ?

 

[BosnianDude]

There is heart podcast top heart surge was on it now he does research he worked with nba and extreme athletes marathon runner they found out that 28% have aorta enlargement they believe it’s extreme exercise something with heart having to push huge amount of blood but again he said is this because of exercise or this is normal for those people large tall bodies ect ect he advised not to stop exercising and some wore advised to stop extreme exercise

 

[Paleowoman]

What is your diet like? Did you have any weight issues ?

Bonjour @d333gs !

I eat a very low carbohydrate diet. I eat meat, eg beef, lamb, pork, chicken (organically reared pasture fed), fish, eggs, cheese, milk in tea, some nuts, non-starchy low carb vegetables eg asparagus, cabbage, kale, cauliflower, courgettes, broccoli, aubergine, peppers, okra, and fats, mainly coconut oil, avocado oil, olive oil, butter ghee, I have a glass of red wine,1½ units, with my evening meal.

I don't eat bread, nor rice, nor any type of grain foods nor foods made from them, nor any foods with sugars/sweeteners of any sort, nor high carb starchy vegetables eg potatoes, parsnips, nor beans, nor fruit. I don’t eat any ready made or processed foods either.

I don’t have any weight issues, I’m very slim, in fact slightly underweight. I have high cholesterol but that’s because my HDL cholesterol is high and my triglycerides are very low. I’ve had three CT angiograms over the past 12 years to check if I have any issues such as blockages - I have none, no plaques, calcium score is 0.