BE...which bacterial infections are the cause?

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coffeelover

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
319
Location
CALIFORNIA
Hello,
Interesting threads on this forum.I learn SO much!
Just wanted to ask valvers which bacterial strains are the most culprits for BE. We are instructed to have good oral hygiene, prophylactic meds before dental visit care,etc...but just wondering if you can get BE from common infections like strep throat or skin infections (impetigo)?
Also, does BE occur more often with certain types of valves,... e.g. mechanical versus tissue? And does anyone know if BE is most likely to occur in the early to mid postop stage versus later on in life?
Thanks for your input!
 
Endocarditis

Endocarditis

CL, endocarditis is of course the general category of infections that attack the heart. Almost any bacterial infection and some fungal infections can be the source. As you mentioned, one of the most common routes for infection is dental work, however, any infective organism that can enter the blood stream can be a source. Strep bacteria can certainly be a source. As well, staph bacteria are also a major source. Strep and Staph are just major classes of bacteria and each class contains thousands of species which can only be identified by lab tests. But, other non-staph/non-strep oranisims such as fungi can also cause such infections. This is why infections cannot be allowed to develop untreated. If you get an infection, or you know you have been exposed to a highly contagious infection, it needs to be reported to your Doctor so treatment can begin before damage is done.

As to which valve may be damaged? All heart valves can be damaged or degraded. You need to consider that infective organisms tend to attack damaged tissue. The attachment points of all types of valves have been damaged and can be infected more easily. In addition, tissue valves such as porcine valves and bio-prosthetics such as bovine pericardial valves may themselves be damaged. Having a mechanical valve does not preclude some of these organisms from growing on its surface and degrading its performance even though the material of the valve itself is undamaged. This called "vegetation" and does itself pose a potential problem because it can break off and induce cavitation, strokes and embolisms.

Fortunately, at present, this remains a potential problem and a source of concern but does not appear to be something that large numbers of us experience. As well, a bout of endocarditis does not mean that the heart (or valve) are certain to suffer permanent damage. Like most everything, there is a lot of variation some will experience a little damage while others a lot. Ignoring prophylaxis before dental work (a big dose of anti-biotic taken just before) or failing to treat common infections will leave one more exposed to endocarditis. As you would expect, repeated bouts of endocarditis are more likely to cause permanent damage and even make another valve replacement necessary. An infection may seem trivial and, before heart damage and valve replacement, could be ignored if it didn't worsen. After the damage done by the failing valve and the surgical replacement of the valve, you ignore infections at your own expense.

So....it is important to recognize the symptoms. Not everyone will experience every symptom listed but the first four are the most common. The Mayo Clinic provides this list and advice:

Fever
Chills
A new or changed heart murmur
— abnormal heart sounds made by blood rushing through your heart
Fatigue
Aching joints and muscles
Night sweats
Shortness of breath
Paleness
Persistent cough
Swelling in your feet, legs or abdomen
Unexplained weight loss
Blood in your urine
(either visible or found in a doctor's viewing of your urine under a microscope)
Tenderness in your spleen — an infection-fighting abdominal organ on your left side, just below your rib cage
Osler's nodes — red, tender spots under the skin of your fingers
Petechiae (puh-TEE-key-e) — tiny purple or red spots on the skin, whites of your eyes or inside your mouth

When to see a doctor: If you develop signs or symptoms of endocarditis, see your doctor right away — especially if you have risk factors for this serious infection, such as a heart defect or a previous case of endocarditis.

Although less serious conditions can cause similar signs and symptoms, you won't know for sure until you're evaluated.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/endocarditis/basics/symptoms/con-20022403
 
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This is a really good thread as endocarditis is something I became aware of when I had AVR in January, something which had never occured to me before. Something else to worry us when we're supposed to be carefree now :confused2:

The surgeon I saw told me that I should have antibiotics before any dental work. I'm wondering what this means ? Does it mean a full course of antibiotics or a one off dose ? Do you get the antibiotics from your GP in advance of a dental appointment for a clean or work ?
 
Anne- For normal dental cleanings, fillings, even root canals, I take 2000 mg of Amoxicillin 1 hour prior to my appointment. My cardio re-fills my prescription, but my dentist always asks me if I need a new one.

Make your dentist aware that you have a heart condition and should be pre-medicating before dental work. Once they know this, they will usually ask you before they do any work if you have taken your meds.

~Marc
 
In my case, I have a prescription for Amoxicillin 500mg pills. I am to take 4 of those 1 hour before any dental work. Dentist has notes and makes sure to ask before starting. I got them prescribed by my cardiologist, but that is here in the states.
 
Anne, it looks like your question was already answered, but yes, your cardiologist or dentist will call in your prescription. Either one of them can do it. Like the others said, mine is 4 500mg Amoxicillin pills one hour before my appt.
PS. This is so much easier than it used to be. Years ago, I had to have 3 shots, one in each side of my rear and one in my thigh. Very painful as a young child. Then sometime around '93 they decided I could ride 2 hours to a bigger hospital 100 miles away to receive the meds via IV in my arm. Years after that, I took 7 Amoxicillin pills one hour before dental appt, and 4 pills a few hours after (can't remember the exact number of hours). Now, we only take the 4 pills an hour before. It's definitely changed a lot. When I take those pills, I realize how blessed I am that I don't have to get those shots anymore.
 
While the precautions are extremely important, as well as being aware of the symptoms, I researched the probability of an infection earlier. IIRC, it's on the order of 52 of 100,000 patient-years. It's pretty rare even though our group gets that short straw more often than the general population. (But that statistic is for the folks with anomalies that raise their risk).

mom2angel - your old regimen sounds brutal. As a kid, I always had the pills. Back then it was before and after the appointment like you were saying.
 
Anne- For normal dental cleanings, fillings, even root canals, I take 2000 mg of Amoxicillin 1 hour prior to my appointment.

Same. I take it as 4 x 500mg capsules, but four fives is twenty so its all the same and easier than a sachet (yeuchh)
 
I remember it is about 300 - 360 in 100,000 patient-years for patients with prosthetic valves(bio-prosthetic and mechanical valves) or 0.3% - 0.36%.

I guess it`s something you need to be aware of but not to worry too much about.

In other words, your chance of 30 years free of IE is something like 91%.




While the precautions are extremely important, as well as being aware of the symptoms, I researched the probability of an infection earlier. IIRC, it's on the order of 52 of 100,000 patient-years. It's pretty rare even though our group gets that short straw more often than the general population. (But that statistic is for the folks with anomalies that raise their risk).

mom2angel - your old regimen sounds brutal. As a kid, I always had the pills. Back then it was before and after the appointment like you were saying.
 
Not sure if it counts as BE but certainly group A strep (like from strep throat) and possibly also strep from impetigo (more uncertainty here) can lead to rheumatic heart disease, thought to be an autoimmune response to strep in certain people. So now that I know I have this problem, I am vigilant about getting strep tests and never assume anything is just a cold. Not sure how much risk I have now as an adult but don't want to take any chances.
 
There's been a huge increase in scarlet fever cases in the UK just now. News items are saying it's related to strep throat so I would have thought that might lead to a risk of endocarditis, though I haven't seen it mentioned.
 
Mantu,Paleogirl,dornole,drc98 and others,
Thank you for sharing! Lots of great info posted!
I get exposed to LOTS and LOTS of sick children.(strep throat was more common this year) Definitely will call my MD if I suspect that I am coming down with strep.
 
In addition to the above, I have been advised of by two cardiologists that if you suspect an infection, have blood drawn prior to taking antibiotics. This way they can identify the culprit before the antibiotics do their thing and are more able to take the appropriate action to treat the infection.
 
I have been one of the 1-2% of the population that got BE. I was lulled into believing that if I took my premedication before dental work, I would avoid endocarditis. Geez, I didn't even know the symptoms, but in my defense, the ER I went to in LA didn't either, sending me back to my hotel with a diagnosis of rotator cuff pain, and possible flu. I had my natural, but moderately leaking, mitral affected as well as the tissue surrounding my mechanical aortic valve, both were leaking more after I was treated for BE. This was my first time with BE, and I needed both valves done afterward. My infection was caused by a staph that lives on the skin, but I had no cuts that they thought caused it.
My sisters friend, a cardiologist, said most patients need valve surgery after being treated or while still being treated for BE.
The thing I can't understand is why so many of us have been misdiagnosed when we have presented with some of the symptoms on the list!
I think many of us have been on death's door when our BE is finally diagnosed. And, I was healthy when I got it, walking the dog 3 miles with no problems! Then, bam, I was very ill and going to ER,urgent care,ER, finally diagnosed correctly from blood cultures 8 days after my first flu-like symptoms. I do take the same regimen before dental work as others, amox 500mg 4caps 1 hour before dental appointment. But, it didn't help me for staph lugdunensis!
 
Hi Guys,

Here in the UK we used to be prescribed prophylactic antibiotics routinely up until a couple of years ago, when it was decided that there was no evidence to support this practice. Since I have known about my AR since birth, it was routine. I discussed this with my cardiologist and she agreed that there was no need to continue taking them as a matter of course - this is of course PRE-SURGERY.

Here in the UK generally it is the dentist who provides the prescription and may require you to arrive an hour early for you appointment so that they can see you take the antibiotic. When I questioned this, being a grown up (well usually) the said it was also in case I had an adverse reaction to it.

My recommendation for here in the UK at least is to always remind your dentist, they don't always check, and take a good book.

Gerri
Also here
 
Hi Gerri,

I know that pre-surgery you don't need antibiotics in the UK, though my dentist always used to ask me about my heart before any treatment. It's post surgery that's the issue. NICE recently changed some of their recommendations and they seem open to interpretation - BUT it's highly important to remember that NICE only gives GUIDANCE ! NONE of what NICE recommends has to be obeyed by either doctors or dentists. I checked this once with my MP and got a letter confirming this.

I'll never forget one of my GPs giving me a prescription for a very good medication which would not have been recommended by NICE, laughing his head off and saying they and the PCT would have heart attacks - he told me that NICE stands for the National Institute for Cost Effectiveness ! That's what thinking GPs think of NICE :)

I think I'll ask my GP for the antibiotic prescription as then I don't need to get two appointments at the dentist, and I will try and get it put on repeat so that I can just order it when necessary without making an appointment to see my GP. He does that with other medications I have, not just the regular repeats but also some of the occasional ones. Also, my cardiologist writes to my GP, he doesn't write to the dentist…….
 
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