Are there perfect hearts?

[Marguerite53]

I ask this question because I am having my children echoed. 2 out of 3 have come back fine, but not perfect. One has an eentsy bit of aortic insufficiency, one has an eentsy bit of mitral valve prolapse. The third will have his echo in a month. Pray tell, what will that one say??

Because there is no murmur and we are doing these "just to be on the safe side", I just started wondering......is everone's heart a little less than perfect?? If we echoed the entire population -- what would we find?

I know that I will keep a careful watch on my 3. How will others watch their children??

Marguerite

 

[Superbob]

Marguerite,

This is a really interesting question. I don't know the answer but I betcha every heart is a little less than "perfect." Philosophically, we know that's the case for human beings in general. I bet that it's the same physiologically.
The question is when do teensy imperfections become life-threatening defects. For most, that time may never come. Certainly hope that's the case with your children.

 

[mntbiker]

Hi Marguerite,
My personal thought on this is all hearts have some issues, some require intervention most do not.

Several years ago we found that my wife has MVP. I took her to see my cardio at the time (best dr I have ever had in my life, he spent years in research before going into private practice) and he made the comment that as testing has improved there have been a higher number of women found with MVP then previously thought and the number could be as high as 80% and they are now thinking it could be normal. He did of course go on to say that some cases needed to be monitored and would eventually need intervention. So based on that I would think there is no such as thing as a perfect heart.

Sorry but he just addressed women in his statement, and no, I don't have documentation to support this.

 

[strawberry]

I do know that some degree of regurg is considered a "normal variant." I think mild regurg is considered such in all valves except the aortic, where trace is considered a normal variant but mild is abnormal.

 

[Der Biermeister]

Good question Marguerite

So far the replies seem to suggest trace or small amount of regurg. For me, this will help smooth over any anxiety when reading the results of future echos, etc.

 

[Marguerite53]

The research cardiologist just elaborated some for me in a follow-up email, stating that 20% of the population has mitral valve prolapse. So if 80% of women may have MVP....... I guess in my family we're backwards so far. The trend in bicuspid aortas leans toward the males (I was a...oh, Halleluiah! I get to say WAS...... sorry........ I was BAV) and my son has MVP whereas maybe more females have this condition. Hmmmm.

Strawberry's comment is very helpful to my overall understanding. Thanks. "I do know that some degree of regurg is considered a "normal variant." I think mild regurg is considered such in all valves except the aortic, where trace is considered a normal variant but mild is abnormal."

Marguerite

 

[Cooker]

The only pefect heart I know of is the one a mother had for her son...........

 

[Magnus]

During my last echo the technician told me he'd done an echo on himself and all of his valves had a slight leak. So there you go.

 

[Andrew'sMom]

This is an interesting topic. I know as a mom dealing with BAV in 2 of my kids, it makes me nervous about the other 2. 1 was echo'd at birth when a murmur was detected, but has no problems; the other was never echo'd. I have found the biggest hurdle is convincing their pediatrician to send him on for an echo based on family history even though an murmur has not been detected.
No murmur=No echo!

 

[aussigal]

Arent Heart Defects pretty common ?...with the BAV being the most common of all congenital heart defects ?

I know we hit the genetic Jackpot and got 3 sons with dodgy hearts 2 moreso than the third but all 3 require monitoring...

Hubby declares his heart to be "Normal" (Perfect!) so howcome my dodgy genes beat his in this department...makes me wonder if there are any Perfect hearts out there too ...I must get hubby echoed to see how Perfect his heart really is! You would think that good healthy genes beat out dodgy BAV genes .

Once you have BAV diagnosed in the family it shouldnt be too difficult to get all the kids and family members echoed to rule it out hopefully, you just gotta be assertive sometimes.

 

[JeanneImp]

Arent Heart Defects pretty common ?...with the BAV being the most common of all congenital heart defects ?

I know we hit the genetic Jackpot and got 3 sons with dodgy hearts 2 moreso than the third but all 3 require monitoring...

Hubby declares his heart to be "Normal" (Perfect!) so howcome my dodgy genes beat his in this department...makes me wonder if there are any Perfect hearts out there too ...I must get hubby echoed to see how Perfect his heart really is! You would think that good healthy genes beat out dodgy BAV genes .

Once you have BAV diagnosed in the family it shouldnt be too difficult to get all the kids and family members echoed to rule it out hopefully, you just gotta be assertive sometimes.

CHD is the number 1 birth defect 1 out of 100

Also Matt's card said everyone's valves has some regurg, normal....

 

[Natanni]

Hi Guys!!

Marguerite-your kids didn't have murmurs, right? When talking to Nathan's cardio about our daughter, the murmur girl he said it may very well be a "trivial flow issue", whatever that means...but the fact that she has the murmur, AND is the daughter of a bicuspid aortic valver makes it very "suspicicous"....I would like to know how many bicupsid valvers out there NEVER need surgery. Our daughter is going to have her echo right after her Dad's 12 month post endocardits/10 month post op echo in July!

Marguerite-what did the doctor say about the two kids follow up? Annual echos? Echo's every 5 years?

 

[Marguerite53]

Marguerite-what did the doctor say about the two kids follow up? Annual echos? Echo's every 5 years?

Well, that's where it gets sticky. I'm doing this all "under the table" because they are 18, 21 and 23 and close to being on their own (well, the oldest is) and needing health insurance (oldest on student health as grad student), and life insurance, etc. I don't want anything compromising their ability to get quality, full coverage health care....but I didn't want to NOT know if there was some underlying problem. Basically, I just wanted to be sure that there was no immediate concern.....no aneurisms, no Marfan's (a silly, somewhat obsessive thought, and never having been very likely), no stenotic bicuspids....etc.. I lived for 25+ years knowing about my bicuspid (and 25 years before that NOT knowing about it!). The boys workout, lift weights, etc. The daughter plays college sports. It just seemed wise to have a look. There have been NO murmurs. And I have those doctors listen really hard each time they are seen, for anything.

My daughter's echo was cash. Very expensive. My cardio read the echo, gratis, having never seen my daughter. (actually, when they were wheeling me out of the hospital, we ran into my cardio and she joked that it was nice to finally meet the "outside" of my daughter, who was there with me!! ) It is in a file, but has never been reported to an insurance company. The cardio recommended for her to use prophylactic antibiotics before dental work. My daughter's internist said that was totally unneccesary and that antibiotics can be dangerous if overused and that she, personally, with this marginal of a report, would never dose her own kids. I do so love the ambivalence we are always faced with....not!

My son had only comments from a research cardiologist who saw him only for the echo (which was free to us as it is a part of a University hospital study). I am convinced by his remarks and all that I know, that I will stay mum about the findings, educate my son about symptoms, make sure he has regular checkups, and wait until the day when someone hears a murmur, or my son develops symptoms. I may tell the dentist to give him antibiotics.....haven't decided yet. May ask the cardio to look over the results. Don't think she'll be very comfortable doing that, tho.

So, no. I will not encourage any follow-up echoes unless the kids' doctor hears a murmur or there are symptoms. If my kids were much younger, I would have gone about it a different way..........but when you are still paying for private college for 3......well, life does get in the way!!

Marguerite

 

[Natanni]

Oh Margeurite, I have been going through all the same issues too. Even though my daughter is only 9, I worry about the long term consequences as well as far health insurance (and in our country right now, this is becoming sooooo much more an issue) goes. Nathan's aortic valve was bicuspid, but he doesn't have many of the other Marf trademarks, and neither does our daughter. Neither are flexible, at all. Kimberlyn has had to work so hard to get mimimum flexibility for skating. They are short and stout. But Kimberlyn has the weird ear cartiledge thing. My biggest fear for her is her skating, and if she has an aneurysm and a hard fall....UGH. But it is done, the echos are in July and are going through our insurance. I worry about Nathan's Dad's history of cardimyopathy/transplant also. I am going to bring our 14 year old son with as well, and have Nathan's specialist listen to him. He said before if no murmur, no echo. But he plays full contact hockey, can't take that chance either.

Our daughter does the prophylactic antibiotics and always will. Watching Nathan suffer through endocarditis was way too scary. I have talked at length with her pediatrician, Nathan's cardio and surgeon, as well as the surgeons I assisted last year, and they all agree that this is the way to go. For Nathan to have a teeth cleaning now, it is a huge production with horrifying doses of antibiotics...but he has no choice at all anymore as he is at a moderate risk for relapse--far more worry about making a monster bacteria this way than those 4 amoxicillins.

Good luck with that last echo!