Another controversial subject

[Missy]

I sincerely hope that this doesn't offend anyone and would like for everyone to understand that it is written with the best of intentions. And just to vent also. This also has nothing to do with presidential winners or losers. Maybe a little of griping about politics in general.

I heard on the news that Colin Powell was in Mexico the other day to discuss amnesty again for the illegals that can prove employment here in the US.
I live in the southwest and I don't know if this is just regional thing although I have heard that other states are being overrun also.
I thought illegal meant just that.... ILLEGAL. And we don't think that Mexicans or any other natiionality should be rewarded for breaking the law.

They are taking the jobs in the southwest for laboring class of people and as they are given amnesty each time they move up the ladder to higher and better paying jobs and some other illegals come to take their place. The middle working class are having a hard time finding jobs. And the Mexicans work for lots less. And they are the minority so they get all the breaks.

If anyone doesn't believe me they need to come here and look around. The tax payers are furnishing housing, schooling , free medical, glasses,dental,
free child care ( on site) vans to pick up their kids to get to classes that are being taught by bi lingual teachers. Some of whom are being hired by the state of NM straight out of Mexico while our own teachers go begging. We have made a deal with Mexico to this effect. They have caretakers at the housing facilities, free adult language classes. None of this is available to other people. And the list goes on. And if we don't like it they will be glad to take it to court. Lots of law suits last year from the illegals.

There are few jobs here unless you are bi lingual. And this does not mean german or some other language besides mexican. The expense of schooling like it is being done is tremendous. None left behind meaning mexican in this area. I have a hearing impaired step son and no rules were broken for him. No special teacher. We had to send him away for schooling after this school had done all they could.

I live 30 miles from Mexico and our borders are not protected as good as they should be. It is not a matter of funds or man power ( well, maybe a little on that) but incompetence. They are not doing it right. Within 15 miles of my house is one of the several million dollar balloons that is along our southern border. It is only up part of the time.

We have border patrol all over the place. At certain times. Helicopters, horseback and vehicle. Yet the ilegals are still in my back yard. And everywhere. It keeps everyones dogs all stirred up and excited because they know people are in the mesquites.

We always have done the humane thing and feed them and water and call the border patrol if they want us to when they are tired. We just stayed out of it. Always felt sorry for the mexicans and still do the nice ones and I wish Mexico had a better deal for their people. But the southwest states are closer to that condition than people realize for the laboring class and middle class. And now the Mexicans are breaking in. The coyotes ( transporters) and mules (backpacking drugs) are really brave and it is becoming an issue that is harmful to many of us. I have two sisters and family living right across the Az. line and their neighbor was just broken into yesterday. And that is just one of many. Big vans of these people are coming in here. The coyotes try to run people off the road and they are dangerous. IT IS NOT SAFE IN THE SOUTHWEST ANYMORE FOR WOMEN AND KIDS. OR EVEN MEN. WE CAN'T COME INTO OUR OWN YARDS WITHOUT WORRYING.

They are always wrecking and killing part of their load. Just part of the daily goings on around here. Now we are going to reward them. And the rest of them will want to come.

For those of you who say this is the way our government gets the illegals to come forward and keep tabs on them and get them documented, we say, "The terrorist probably won't be in that bunch of people that come forward." What do you think?

I realize that the U S is made up of immigrants. And that is the way we have always done it. But by legal means. The people who approach this legally should be considered but this is too much.

I have just named a few of the things that effect me personally here and my neigbors and family but there is so much more that is in the papers and news
that is costing so much money that the tax payers are paying for but our old people and sick people can't have medical and medicine in this country. Maybe we should all move to Mexico. All the mexican babies born in this hospital we pay for. They don't.

And we are accused of racial profiling and the Border Parol is also if we dare object to them prowling around in the bushes. And hiding in the pump houses or out buildings.

The good ones are poor and some are so tired and feet bleeding and really in bad shape. But then there are the bad ones. The drug runners and the ones that just don't give a darn.

And the majority of votes in NM are cast by Mexicans. We are two thirds mexican. And I firmly believe that for people who are from another country and have relatives there,that a little part of their heart is there and they are voting for what is good in Mexico and for Mexicans instead of wholly the US.

So I believe that some of the problems that arise from politics stems from regional differences and just which side of the fence you happen to be on when the grass gets green.

Shouldn't there be an easier way to deal with these problems other that amnesty? We are cutting our own throats.

 

[Ross]

Missy it's not just you and your area, they are up here in Ohio too! I'm sure they are in other places. My wife came home from work the other night upset because her employer has hired a bunch of Mexicans and some other nationalities that cannot even speak english, and told them to train them on their jobs! Now these people are doing the jobs that my wife was doing and she's in another part of the factory. I want to drop a quarter to the INS so bad on this place. What they are doing cannot be legal, not for the amount of people they are bringing in. I'm talking bus fulls at time.

We have too many people in my area displaced and losing homes over the whole economy thing here, and this company has the balls to hire (Illegal?) immigrants? These people are rude and arrogant too. They will not do as they are told, whether they just don't understand or what, I don't know, but most don't act like they want or need a job.

I'm sickened over the whole thing.

 

[hensylee]

The lovely town where I grew up is a huge city now and if you don't speak Spanish you might as well move. Most of the Americans did. That is Miami, however, the reason the Cubans and others are there is a whole other reason than the Mexicans. The citizens of Miami were outraged at the losses of their jobs because when the Cubans first came over, they worked at anything for low wages and Americans couldn't get by on them. I worked in personnel and Cubans who were mayors, governors, doctors, lawyers would apply for low paying jobs. They DIDN'T want American handouts from the government. These folks have made their own place and are very successful, however, I am of the opinion that English should be the language of our country and everybody ought to know how to speak it.

We moved half way up Florida to a wee orange grove/cattle town. It has been overrun by Mexicans. The streets are unsafe. I now live in NW Florida in a tiny country farming sort of town. Well, guess what? Here they are. I can't understand where they all get work. Cousin told me the other day they are working on highways/road dept work, so I guess they can get work most anywhere because of their cheap wages and they are good workers who will work at hard jobs that Americans don't want. I live completely in the country. There is a small building at the end of my road that has been rented to an American married to a Mexican - its name is el Nopal. It's a place where these workers go to cash their checks, send most of it home to Mexico - the store charges for this.

You are not alone in believing that we should revert to our old ways of allowing a limited number of people to come as new Americans, work towards their citizenship before they are legal. However, I heard yesterday that there is afoot a new bill to let Mexicans have status here - whether you or I like it or not.

 

[McCln]

Don't feel bad Missy, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I have mine and not everyone has to agree with mine. I feel that the law is the law. My ancestores come here as legal as it was at the time, way back before 20 century. But nowadays, it is difficult to day which side to be on. You want to be humane to the less fortunate and hard workers, but then there are the bad apples. It happen with the Cubans back in the 80's. So with this problem is conflict. There is no easy solution and hopefuly the right people get helped and the bad people get caught and sent back. It is a no-win situation.

 

[happyheart]

Thanks to Grandma, I'm here

Thanks to Grandma, I'm here

On one of my Grandmother's rare visits when I was a kid (she lived 2,500 miles away and air travel was very costly then), we got pulled over by a traffic cop while the family was out for a sight-seeing drive.

Dad was going a little fast, I guess. But boy, did Grandma seem nervous. I was maybe ten at the time but I remember Grandma's anxiety very well. Later, I asked my mom why her mother seemed so freaked out but I got no straight answers.

Years later I found out why Grandma freaked at a stop by a cop.

Turns out she was an illegal alien. Crossed the border many years ago, married my Grandfather (a foreign national from yet a different country) and they had a family of five kids who begot dozens of grandkids...one of them, me.

Grandma never sought American citizenship, fearing deportation, I guess. After Grandpa died, she married an American (we called him Uncle Billy) and finally--after 30 years--earned the right to live in this country legally.

But Grandma never did earn the air of confidence most of us feel when a cop or a border official asks: "And what is your country of origin?". She always lived in fear that she would be told to leave her family and the country that had become her home.

One of the things Grandma brought to this country was a bad ticker. I trace my bicuspid aortic valve to her side of the family. Like one of her daughters (my aunt, now 83) and one of her sons (now 81), I too have a leaky two- flapper that needs to be repaired. (My aunt and uncle continue to do well, by the way, and I will too.)

My Grandmother was a hoot. (Boy could she cook.) She passed away (without ever being deported) after suffering a heart attack while standing in the cafeteria line at her resthome. (Probably upset at the food she was being served.)

My Grandmother's maiden name was Arseneau. She was a French Canadian from Nova Scotia. My Grandfather's name was Gustav Froom. He was from Sweden and--although I'm not positive--he was probably an illegal too. (Could be some 'snow-backs' on my Dad's side as well. Pretty easy to sneak into Minnesota from the north in those days.)

On November 23 I'm having my bad heart repaired...the one my Grandmother left me. The operation will be held at an undisclosed location.

I'd tell you where but I've got a few details to take care of in the next ten days and I'd rather not have to worry about dealing with the INS right now.

 

[lance]

So it's no different in America

So it's no different in America

Hi Missy,

Your feelings are not unique. It's just the same in Canada with the difference Canadian taxpayers foot the bill for health care as well.

The law is the law and why should breaking the law be rewarded with amnesty? The same reason I suppose the crooks break the law and the police officers are charged.

When my ancestors arrived here over a century ago I'm sure they weren't treated to free hospitalization, accommodation and language lessons, day care, welfare and whatever else.

Because of our Liberally liberal politicians Ontario now has legal Portugese bullfighting and the muslims are lobbying for Sharia law. Now isn't that a treat! Because of multiculturalism they'll probably get it.

Multiculturalism has dominated Toronto with large areas of the city being taken over by whatever "cultural group" settles there and I as a third generation Canadian feel I am in a foreign country if I visit.

I was in Toronto at the Royal Agricultural Fair and the Canadian government had a display and you could apply for a passport so for the first time I thought it was a good idea so applied. Well, I was born here, their service was for "immigrants" so I was given a 1-800 number to call. Absolute, blatant discrimmination--but then that's Canada!

So if any Americans want to immigrate here because G. Bush was re-elected they had better by non-Caucasian, illiterate, unskilled and sick. That's the only immigrants being welcomed here.

If I don't post again you'll know the "politically correct police" have swooped down and seized my computer and I have been sentenced to 10 years of being politically corrected.

 

[hensylee]

My closest friend is also Canadian. Her folks brought her and her siblings to the U.S. when they were children. She attended schools here, married (3 xs), bore children and is still here. She votes here. She has a career and pays taxes. But she isn't a citizen. Last husband she divorced threatened to turn her in as an illegal alien! Nobody has ever challenged her status that I know of. But what would happen if somebody did? Reckon she'd be deported?

 

[Missy]

I also have a good friend who is Canadian married to an American. And she applied for a green card to come here. I also have a niece that is married to a Mexican ciizen. He has a green card. And he will eventually be eligle for citizenship. So why can't these other people do this? This is the legal way.

So even though I have sympathy for some of the people who are here illegally I think they need to go through the proper channels as they always have. And for the ones who were here years ago, times were different then. There are so many of them now and we have to consider the welfare of our own families. And if I have to choose between my children and friend having a job and a future or an illegal I will pick my own. And that means U. S.

And believe it or not my Canadian friend showed me her paper work and it says if she is discriminated against in the US she only has to report it to a certain place and they will take care of it. She told me that if she and I both wanted the same job that she would get it. She doesn't agree with that even though she is the Canadian.

There are nice Hispanic people and some of them are my friends. I live close to Mexico and I know some down there. But they are bringing their customs with them. And when they come here they have nothing but owe nothing. They live in anything, with lots of people in one room and when they start getting ahead they pool there money and one will buy a house and land or something then they do it for the next one. And they eat beans and tortillas and hogs heads and chorizo and things like that until they can do better. The American thinks he is past that and is already in debt and cannot compete. Some of us are going to have to learn to live like them though if they take all the jobs.

The Hispanics who have been here for years or generations are living just like we do. But don't ever believe that the majority of them don't have sympathy for the illegals. A few around here don't think they should be given so much liberty. But how would you feel if we were talking about your grandma or friend just as has been posted in this forum. And that is precisely my point. We have to decide who has priority here. This is more important than people think.

Is there any out there who will stand up and say they will give up there jobs for them? Or their childrens jobs and livlihood. Jeopardize our own grandchildrens supper? Maybe for a day or two I would also, but long term NO. My people have to eat also and need shelter. There are people having to give up their jobs for them. And I know some like Ross said who are losing their homes because of no job.

The economy is an issue that has to be dealt with and bringing all these people in here is just not the answer, in my opinion.

And now I want to say what I do like.
The fact that we are here in the US and can gripe and post like this. At least for now.
And special people like the ones on here. Thanks you all for listening .

 

[bvdr]

My family were immigrants from Holland and I believe most were legal. However, there is no documentation to be had for one grandfather.....it seems he arrived without papers. He rode with Teddy Roosevelt in Cuba and obtained his citizenship somehow through the Marines. But that is all besides the point.

I too can not understand why "illegal" is so hard to figure out. We spend weeks a year down in Mexico and I love the people I have come to know there. It has nothing to do with race or creed but rather legal and illegal.

We have several Mexican employees who are excellent in the positions they hold. Quite a few years back it was brought to our attention that we had two employees whose papers did not withstand any scutiny. My husband, being a law abiding citizen, called the immigration department to ask advice. He was told that unless he had a group of at least ten that they would not come get them. It was also brought to our attention that we could receive a hefty fine if we employed someone illegal....and also that we could be sued for discrimination if we conducted more investigation of someone's eligibility for employment, or let someone go based on "suspecting" they might be illegal through hearsay. What a position to be in! We have not called since.

I too wish that other countries would be as full of opportunities that our's is. WE cannot though not enforce our immigration laws. Legal is legal and illegal is illegal. Spending money on someone here illegally is in my opinion beyond belief.

 

[countryboy]

Me Too

Me Too

Missy, I live in Texas and totally agree with you. I wonder if you will get any comments from Democrats who want to fill the courts with ultra liberal judges.
Liberal justices who legislate instead of interpret are part of the illegal problem.
I wonder when we stopped having quotas from different countries? I guess that was around the same time that everyone had to worry about being politically correct all the time.

Thanks for the vent,

Bobby

 

[PapaHappyStar]

Then there is the story of the ant, butterfly, sparrow and mouse under a mushroom in the rain.

 

[tobagotwo]

I believe it was Mr. Bush's camp who declared amnesty for the illegal aliens in the Southwest, and somehow, the judges had nothing to do with it, liberal or conservative.

The amnesty has very plainly much more to do with lowering labor prices for business owners and garnering votes than any humanitarian interest. That doesn't mean the outcome of it is good or bad, just that it would be difficult to ascribe high ideals as the motivation for it.

Illegal is illegal. Immaterial to whether you feel it is right or wrong, there are ways to change laws, if there is support to do so. Then these people would not be illegal. If there is not support to change the laws, they remain illegal. The choice could - should - reside with the U.S. people. Unfortunately, Amnesty simply bypassed the law by decree.

You'll note I have not declared my actual opinion of the situation. That is because I believe the base issues - the laws - are the way to address them. Either by providing relief, or by being enforced. One or t'other.


n.b. Ross...I still think this type of discussion should be in a separate forum.

 

[Harpoon]

Open borders are one of this country's greatest strengths. With the exception of the Native American population of course, we are a country of immigrants, all of us. That diversity is a great asset and shouldn't be ignored.

However, there is a prescribed way of coming into this country to visit, work, and/or live and it really should be enforced.

That's my two cents anyways.

I struggle with the idea of giving folks an advantage when they're not following the rules. I appreciate their needs, but we have laws established that everyone's expected to follow, why should exceptions be made for people who knowingly enter the country through "less than legal" means and are deliberately evading the law once here?

Yes, they need food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, education too, but not at the expense of someone who's been "playing by the rules" their whole life...


By the way, in theory at least, illegal immigrants can't vote either.

But a number of states don't require proof of citizenship to vote, some barely require proof of residency.

 

[mjcb]

The Companies Hiring Them Should Bare the Burden

The Companies Hiring Them Should Bare the Burden

If companies want to hire a large numbers of these laborers at lower wage rates, which is why they keep coming here, then those companies should be made to bear the burden that these people are putting on our tax dollars. Every year I see more and more cuts at my childrens' schools and more and more free services offered to the hispanics (being paid for by our tax dollars, of course). If the companies were made to pay an increased tax rate based on the number of hispanics that they hire, they would not hire as many, thus reducing the number coming for work. I am sure that this will never happen, but it would help cover the added expense. Our tax dollars only stretch soo far. I work for a company who hires mostly hispanics, this area is becoming over run. I was recently admonished for creating a hostile work environment when one of the Mexican workers told me I needed to learn Spanish and I told him that the Mexicans needed to learn English like all of the other immigrants that came to this country and wanted to be able to communicate with the people in this country. My great grand parents were from Gemany and they learned to speak English. They did not expect the people around them to learn German. Needless to say it was fine for him to tell me I needed to learn Spanish. That was perfectly fine. If you have a salaried position you can not tell the hispanics they need to speak English or your job will be in jeopardy. I have decided that I will learn Spanish, only so I can understand what they are saying but I will never speak a word of it even if I know it fluently. After this is the America, we speak English, not Spanish.