Airbourne

[Dale]

This week I started back at work and my whole family had hacking coughs (NOT that virus!) and there were germs everywhere! I felt like I could see them floating around the house.
I took 2 doses of Airbourne on Wed, which is supposed to help prevent or shorten colds, just in case. I bought it in Buffalo - in Canada a similiar product is Cold Effects (sorry about the spelling). I spoke to the pharmacist after I took the two doses and she said I shouldn't have....
Well my INR has been hovering around 2 for a few weeks, so today I tested it and sure enough it was 1.6.

I just got back from emerg where my INR registered 1.56. The Doctor gave me a shot of Lovenex, and told me to double my dose of coumadin today (from 5mg to 10).
I will see my doctor on Monday, but this event reinforced how I should check before I take anything. I got the cold anyway, but it is a mild one.
At least I know my Coagchek monitor is accurate.

Dale

 

[Bina]

It's a shame that many of the herbal types of products can mess with our INR, because there actually are some good products available.
Will you take more Lovenox tomorrow? It's probably going to be needed for another day.
Doubling your dose today may cause you to have a spike, my own choice is to raise it up a bit slower.
Good thing that you have your own tester to keep an eye on things.
Its a bummer that you had to go to emerg, but at least you got your shot and had a confirmation on your INR.
YAY......Coaguchek.

 

[Tbone]

I hope everything works out for you. It seems to me that you need a higher dose anyhow considering you are hovering (2.0) so low. I know that I hate those Lovenox shots myself.

 

[ottagal]

Hi Dale,

Funny...was just thinking about you and then I saw you post. Sorry to hear of the INR situation and I hope that it regulates soon. How about some hot chicken soup to help with the virus? Hope you and your family start to feel better. Good luck at your appt. on Monday.

 

[Dale]

Thanks Ottawagal -- everyone is getting better. And Bina -- I was wondering about doubling my dose to 10 mg too. I think I will take 7 mg today instead of 5, and maybe 7 tomorrow?
The emerg doctor and the nurses didn't know there was a home tester available and they thought it was a great idea. I don't know why it is such a secret in Canada.
I would never have know about it myself if it wasn't for this forum!

 

[Philip B]

Airbourne?

Airbourne?

It's interesting that Airbourne messed-up your INR. There's little or no scientific evidence that Airbourne provides any benefit for those trying to avoid colds and flu. I believe Airbourne lost lawsuit in the recent past due to claims that it did things it couldn't do.

Does the label warn coumadin users not to use it?

-Philip

 

[Ross]

Having you double your dose now is equivalent to jamming the gas pedal to the floor, then you'll go to high, then they'll slam on the brakes. It's been proven that loading doses DO NOT WORK. It still take the same 3 days for that loading dose to show up and then it's going to be 2 times what it should be.

All kinds of herbal things in Airborne. Doesn't surprise me that it would cause an INR drop.

 

[Dale]

Hi Philip, I know that Airbourne hasn't been proven to do anything, but alot of people (like me) hope these herbal things will help -- like Echinacea etc. There is nothing on the label for coumadin users -- in fact I don't think I've seen a package I've bought from the drugstore that warns coumadin users about anything. I brought this up to a pharmacist and I am setting up an appointment with her to go over what I shouldn't take.

Ross - Thank you for the advice. Actually, I didn't double the dose last night because I've read about spiking lots of times in various posts. Thank you forum!
I took 7 mg instead of 5, and I think I might take 6-7 tonight. I Have to go back and read one of the threads that talks about increasing the dose 10% or something over several days.
There is more knowledge on this website about dosing than I can get from someone on a Sunday, or any day, come to think of it.

 

[Ross]

Hi Philip, I know that Airbourne hasn't been proven to do anything, but alot of people (like me) hope these herbal things will help -- like Echinacea etc. There is nothing on the label for coumadin users -- in fact I don't think I've seen a package I've bought from the drugstore that warns coumadin users about anything. I brought this up to a pharmacist and I am setting up an appointment with her to go over what I shouldn't take.

Ross - Thank you for the advice. Actually, I didn't double the dose last night because I've read about spiking lots of times in various posts. Thank you forum!
I took 7 mg instead of 5, and I think I might take 6-7 tonight. I Have to go back and read one of the threads that talks about increasing the dose 10% or something over several days.
There is more knowledge on this website about dosing than I can get from someone on a Sunday, or any day, come to think of it.

Everything you want to know can be found at these two links:
http://warfarinfo.com/warfarinfo.com2.htm
http://www.aafp.org/afp/990201ap/635.html

 

[Dale]

Thanks Ross! I really want to get a handle on this stuff so I can trust my body and my life again. You saved me lots of searching on Mother's Day!

 

[Ross]

Thanks Ross! I really want to get a handle on this stuff so I can trust my body and my life again. You saved me lots of searching on Mother's Day!

Anything you don't know or can't find, just ask. I have a computer full of anticoagulation info.

 

[Bina]

Dale: YES, these forums are a blessing. I also would have never found out about home testing without VR.com
I'm glad that you re-considered taking the 10mg.....you are doing great.

 

[ALCapshaw2]

Having you double your dose now is equivalent to jamming the gas pedal to the floor, then you'll go to high, then they'll slam on the brakes. It's been proven that loading doses DO NOT WORK. It still take the same 3 days for that loading dose to show up and then it's going to be 2 times what it should be.

All kinds of herbal things in Airborne. Doesn't surprise me that it would cause an INR drop.

Ross -

Are you SURE that there is ZERO EFFECT from taking a dose of Coumadin and then (Magically) the FULL EFFECT shows up 3 days later?

I would like to know where I can find a paper / study that shows this to be true.

Personally, I'm more inclined to (want to) believe that there is some effect on day1, some more on day 2, and finally the Full Effect is realized on day 3.

I just can't imagine a process that would be delayed for three days and then WHAM, the full effect just shows up all at once. If I am wrong, then please tell me HOW this works.

'AL Capshaw' (it's the Engineer in me)

 

[Natanni]

I just stopped by looking around for Al's link....Nathan is coming down with my awful cold and for whatever reason (placebo or true) Airborne appears to stop colds in there tracks for me. I tried Zicam (sp?) this time...no such luck Was hoping Nathan could use my Airborne....now see that although found no Vit K, might not be such a good idea.

Thanks for the input guys

 

[Ross]

I just stopped by looking around for Al's link....Nathan is coming down with my awful cold and for whatever reason (placebo or true) Airborne appears to stop colds in there tracks for me. I tried Zicam (sp?) this time...no such luck Was hoping Nathan could use my Airborne....now see that although found no Vit K, might not be such a good idea.

Thanks for the input guys

He can use Airborne, but test in 3 days to see how much to tweak the Coumadin.

 

[Ross]

Ross -

Are you SURE that there is ZERO EFFECT from taking a dose of Coumadin and then (Magically) the FULL EFFECT shows up 3 days later?

I would like to know where I can find a paper / study that shows this to be true.

Personally, I'm more inclined to (want to) believe that there is some effect on day1, some more on day 2, and finally the Full Effect is realized on day 3.

I just can't imagine a process that would be delayed for three days and then WHAM, the full effect just shows up all at once. If I am wrong, then please tell me HOW this works.

'AL Capshaw' (it's the Engineer in me)

I'm not saying ZERO effect, I'm saying it unnecessarily sends someone too high too fast, then when they're tested, found too high, they tell them to hold a dose or some similiar stupid thing. There is an article somewhere on this thing if I can find it. (I really need to organzie my papers on here, problem is, it'll take me several hours to do it)