3 mos. post with bleeding complications(long read)

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lyneebee

Hi everyone,.
I had my tricuspid valve replaced and maze procedure done 9/9.It was a successful surgery.I was up and walking after 7 days out from the hospital. My protime was managed by my primary physician since I could not find a coumadin clinic close to home. discharge at 3.1. I was not monitored for 15 days knowing that everything was OK. Taking 4 mlg/daily. I started to have symptoms like hematoma on the leg, bleeding of the gums, then rectal bleeding, to top it all I took 2 Aleve tablets (prescribed by my doctor) a day before to ease the pain on my leg, Then on 10/19 I was admitted to ER at 7 INR. I was bleeding (G.I.)for 2 days.they gave me plasma, vit K and so on. Then they did some testing colonospy, endoscopy, large & small intestines to rule out where the bleeding was coming from, all negative. They said I was overdosed on coumadin, I stayed for 9 days. I went home 2-3 days early ( my hematologist said, I should be released one week after stopping heparin) since my INR was fine at 2.0 she discharged me at 4mlg. dose and gave me innuhep to inject to come back Monday. Come Monday (10/31) I was awaken by the worst head ache in my entire life followed by vomiting, another trip to ER, this time was scary because the pain was intense, INR was 2.82. Morphine did not help.CT scan showed no bleeding, lumbar puncture show there was bleeding but not sure where the blood was comig from, they punctured a vein. To be sure if was not bleeding internally , they did a cerebral angioram, it was negative no blockage/bleeding, so they waited. On my second week I was having slurred speech, CT scan this time showed bleeding on the left side of the brain which affected my speech, a day later, I could not speak.they said I had subdural hematoma and to get my speech back, they decided to remove the subdural hematoma by neurosurgeon. I was on a ventilator for a day and when I woke up my speech came back. Thanks God, no permanent damaged. I stayed another 2 weeks for recovery and to balance my coumadin level . I never had a problem with my MVR for10 years until now my doctors cannot clearly explain why all of a sudden I had this problem except I was overdosed. I can understand the first time to the hospital (GI Bleed due high INR) but my bleeding in the brain, my INR was OK. Now my hematologist wants to increase my INR target from 2 to 2.5 .Now I realized how important to closely monitor your INR. Until now my INR is still not in range. See below.

Last D/C 11/21 INR2.2 Doze 4mlg. Target is 2.5
11/22 Doze 4mlg.
11/23 1.99 4mlg.
11/24 4 mlg.
11/25 2.04 4 mlg.
11/26/27 4mlg.
11/28 2.35 4mlg.
11/29-11/30 4mlg
12/1 3.22 1mlg.
12/2-12/4 3mlg.
12/5 get protime
I wonder why it jumps from 2.35 to 3.22. the only changes I made were may diet. I started eating a lot to put back 10 lbs I lost during my hospital stay.
Questions to Al or anyone is concern; My oncologist who happened to be my hematologist monitored my INR while I was in the hospital who was very concerned, I?m worried that until now she cannot level my INR. I?m not underestimating her but I wonder if I should stay with her or find a coumadin clinic to manage me. I understand she manages few patients in her clinic. My cardio does not want to manage my coumadin bec. he is too much more busy than my primary which I think does not have the expertise. I ordered a protime machine so it will be easier to closely monitor my INR and more convenient in regards to trips to hospital lab .I wonder how long it takes to put me within the target or normal range. How do you calculate to get your right dosage, I?ve read that in the post but still do not understand. Have MVR (St. June 1995) and tricuspid VR (On X valve 9/05. Maze procedure did not work for me. My cardio said my pacemaker is not working, I started having a-fib since my bleeding began. I am always worried and fear thinking this bleeding could comeback anytime. In my history what should be my normal range. I am writing this to gather some info that I may or may not be aware of to avoid the same situation in the future. Can any one of you give me your feedback or if you have similar experience. I?ve been through a lot and I hope and pray I would not go for another trip to the ER. Thanks in advance for reading my uneventful recovery. I?ve gone back to walking although my muscles, bones and back still stiff and painful due to long hospital stay.

Lynneebee
 
Hi, Lyneebee - what a mess you've had. All my sympathies.

A question - haven't you been on coumadin since you got your St. Jude mitral valve in 95? And did you have problems maintaining your target prior to the tricuspid surgery?

I think as much trouble as you've had you ought to get some expert help with anticoagulation - namely, a coumadin clinic. But for the best info for yourself you need to go to Al Lodwick's website. He has dosing information.

Good luck.
 
Good grief, woman! What problems you've had!!

I started reading your post, and it went from bad to badder!!!!

I've really no suggestions for you, only that it seems like the ProTime is exactly what you need, for closer monitoring. No one cares about your health the way you do.

Our prayers will be with you. - Marybeth
 
I'm so sorry you are having such problems. Looking over your recent dosages and INRs I really question why you had a dosage change on 12/1 when your INR was 3.22. Your range cannot be a single number but rather from say, 2 to 3, or 2.5 to 3.5. A target range that is too narrow is almost impossible to consistently maintain. Your history is so complicated I think it is imperative you have the best management available....maybe a coumadin clinic will be in your best interest.
 
I'm sorry you've had so much trouble! What a nightmare! One thing that caught my eye was that you said that your doctor wanted to increase your target range for your INR from 2 to 2.5. The American Heart Association says that with a mechanical valve (like your St. Jude), your target range should be between 2.5 and 3.5. Please try to get some expert advice, if at all possible, conerning your Coumadin. Some doctors just don't have that much experience with Coumadin. The doctor in the ER this past Thursday didn't even know people were checking their INR's at home with little machines. And he was a young thing (in his 30's). Kinda scary! Let us know how you are doing. Linda
 
3 mos. post up w/bleeding complications

3 mos. post up w/bleeding complications

Hi Georgia,

Never had a problem w/ my coumadin prior to tricuspid surgery. My normal range was 2.5-3.5 and this was managed by Kaiser coumadin clinic, now I'm not w/ kaiser anymore and I have problems finding one close to my area. This is a wake up call for me. Thanks for your reply.

lynneebee
 
bvdr said:
I'm so sorry you are having such problems. Looking over your recent dosages and INRs I really question why you had a dosage change on 12/1 when your INR was 3.22. Your range cannot be a single number but rather from say, 2 to 3, or 2.5 to 3.5. A target range that is too narrow is almost impossible to consistently maintain. Your history is so complicated I think it is imperative you have the best management available....maybe a coumadin clinic will be in your best interest.

Hi Betty,

I don't know why she change my dosage, in fact I questioned myself and was reluctant to change the dosage. Comes Monday I will have another PT and see what happens and I will certainly question what the target range she's looking at. I'll let you know, Thanks for your reply.

Lyneebee
 
3 mos post up/question on warfarin dosage

3 mos post up/question on warfarin dosage

Hi Betty,

I had my Protime today (monday) and talk to my hematologist why she increase my dosage last time. My INR target level is 2.5-3.5 (she don't want to go over 3 due to my recent hemohrage, My INR today is 2.48 and she wants me to stay on 3 mlg. until my next protime which is Thursday.Does it make sense. Thanks for your concern.

lyneebee
 
I don't know about that, Ross. She will still be on a reduced dose so she may well drop a little more. You are right though that retesting before Thursday would be just too soon.

Lyneebee, you're in a difficult situation here and I hope it soon resolves with no re-bleed and no clotting either.
 
This appears to be such a bad case of mismanagement that my first impression was that this was a hoax somebody made up to try and suck us all into giving false sympathy.

I had my tricuspid valve replaced and maze procedure done 9/9.It was a successful surgery.I was up and walking after 7 days out from the hospital. My protime was managed by my primary physician since I could not find a coumadin clinic close to home. discharge at 3.1. I was not monitored for 15 days knowing that everything was OK.

How can you know everything is OK if you are not being monitored?

Taking 4 mlg/daily. I started to have symptoms like hematoma on the leg, bleeding of the gums, then rectal bleeding, to top it all I took 2 Aleve tablets (prescribed by my doctor) a day before to ease the pain on my leg,

Why was no INR done when it was pretty obvious that you were having a bleeding problem.

Then on 10/19 I was admitted to ER at 7 INR. I was bleeding (G.I.)for 2 days.they gave me plasma, vit K and so on.

You were bleeding and had an INR of 7 and were hospitalized for two days before they gave you anything to reserse the INR?????

Then they did some testing colonospy, endoscopy, large & small intestines to rule out where the bleeding was coming from, all negative. They said I was overdosed on coumadin, I stayed for 9 days.

What insurance do you have that would let you stay this long for negative findings?

I went home 2-3 days early ( my hematologist said, I should be released one week after stopping heparin) since my INR was fine at 2.0 she discharged me at 4mlg. dose and gave me innuhep to inject to come back Monday.

If the INR was fine, why the Innohep? (This is very similar to Lovenox)

Come Monday (10/31) I was awaken by the worst head ache in my entire life followed by vomiting, another trip to ER, this time was scary because the pain was intense, INR was 2.82. Morphine did not help.CT scan showed no bleeding, lumbar puncture show there was bleeding but not sure where the blood was comig from, they punctured a vein. To be sure if was not bleeding internally , they did a cerebral angioram, it was negative no blockage/bleeding, so they waited. On my second week I was having slurred speech, CT scan this time showed bleeding on the left side of the brain which affected my speech, a day later, I could not speak.they said I had subdural hematoma and to get my speech back, they decided to remove the subdural hematoma by neurosurgeon. I was on a ventilator for a day and when I woke up my speech came back. Thanks God, no permanent damaged.

This does illustrate that rushing to get a test may not give "flase negative" results.

I stayed another 2 weeks for recovery and to balance my coumadin level . I never had a problem with my MVR for10 years until now my doctors cannot clearly explain why all of a sudden I had this problem except I was overdosed. I can understand the first time to the hospital (GI Bleed due high INR) but my bleeding in the brain, my INR was OK. Now my hematologist wants to increase my INR target from 2 to 2.5 .

Increasing the target INR after a subdural hematoma? You appear to have gone through the looking glass. Are you sure that you are not Alice???

Now I realized how important to closely monitor your INR. Until now my INR is still not in range. See below.

Last D/C 11/21 INR2.2 Doze 4mlg. Target is 2.5
11/22 Doze 4mlg.
11/23 1.99 4mlg.
11/24 4 mlg.
11/25 2.04 4 mlg.
11/26/27 4mlg.
11/28 2.35 4mlg.
11/29-11/30 4mlg
12/1 3.22 1mlg.
12/2-12/4 3mlg.
12/5 get protime
I wonder why it jumps from 2.35 to 3.22. the only changes I made were may diet. I started eating a lot to put back 10 lbs I lost during my hospital stay.
Questions to Al or anyone is concern; My oncologist who happened to be my hematologist

Many hematologist/oncologists are really only up to date on hematology.

monitored my INR while I was in the hospital who was very concerned, I?m worried that until now she cannot level my INR. I?m not underestimating her but I wonder if I should stay with her or find a coumadin clinic to manage me. I understand she manages few

few = little interest and probably little skill.

patients in her clinic. My cardio does not want to manage my coumadin bec. he is too much more busy than my primary which I think does not have the expertise. I ordered a protime machine so it will be easier to closely monitor my INR and more convenient in regards to trips to hospital lab .I wonder how long it takes to put me within the target or normal range. How do you calculate to get your right dosage, I?ve read that in the post but still do not understand. Have MVR (St. June 1995) and tricuspid VR (On X valve 9/05. Maze procedure did not work for me. My cardio said my pacemaker is not working, I started having a-fib since my bleeding began.

This is the one that really makes me wonder if this is a true post. Why would a cardiologist not recognize that a malfunctioning pacemaker and resulting atrial fibrillation would not be the cause of an elevated INR? The blood not being pumped efficiently and making fewer trips through the liver (warfarin not metabolized rapidly) is probably the explanation of the high INR

I am always worried and fear thinking this bleeding could comeback anytime. In my history what should be my normal range.

Probably 2.5 to 3.5 but tending to the lower side if you have aready had a subdural hematoma.

I am writing this to gather some info that I may or may not be aware of to avoid the same situation in the future. Can any one of you give me your feedback or if you have similar experience. I?ve been through a lot and I hope and pray I would not go for another trip to the ER. Thanks in advance for reading my uneventful recovery. I?ve gone back to walking although my muscles, bones and back still stiff and painful due to long hospital stay.
 
Al, I agree. This is the one of the worst cases of mismanagement that I have encountered since I have been on this board in 2000. I thought I had heard everything, but lyneebee surely does have some doctors who need to be both re-educated and chastized. I continue to cringe when I read how good people are victimized by the very doctors in whom they have placed their trust. And, that is why this board and Al Lodwick, as an expert on anticoagulation, are so vital. If we can't get the right information from our doctors, where else can we go? www.valvereplacement.com is the answer.
Kind regards,
Blanche
 
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