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Thread: Low INR: Olive Oil, Peanut Butter, Walnuts to blame?

  1. #1
    JimChicago Guest

    Default Low INR: Olive Oil, Peanut Butter, Walnuts to blame?

    My INR was low again (2.0) - they told me to increase to 3 mg 6 days 2 mg 1 day from 3 mg 4 days and 2 mg 3 days per week and come back in 10 days.
    I'm trying to figure out why it's lower as I've quit using the Ensure now and a few weeks ago my INR was 3.4
    So I think I've narrowed it down to:
    extra virign olive oil for cooking (frying beef)
    natural smooth peanut butter (I've increased to 2 slices of bread and peanut butter from 1)
    tomatoes (apparently 6 mcg per 3.5 ounces)
    walnuts (apparently 2.7 mcg per 3.5 ounces)

    I've been eating these the last few weeks so I'm wondering if the cumulative effect was to lower my INR. Of course if the warfarin dose increase gets me back in range I won't mind but just hoping and praying the INR won't go lower.
    Will I have to eat preety much the same precise amount of these foods each week? Anyone else had issues with olive oil, walnuts, or peanut butter?
    Here's the info I've found from various places about vit. k content in these foods-

    Treated Olive Oil 2.1 mcg per oz.
    Olive Oil - 1oz. - 13.7 mcg
    From:
    http://food.naturalhealthperspective.com/oliveoil.html
    >>>>
    The dark green variety of Olive Oil contains the most antioxidants.1 Olive Oil is the second best natural source of Vitamin K available. The greener the vegetable or oil the higher the content because Vitamin K is associated with chlorophyll.
    >>>>
    http://www.oliveoilsource.com/oliveoildr.htm
    >>>>
    The greener the vegetable, the higher the content, say the researchers, because the vitamin is associated with the chlorophyll. Vegetable oils--soybean, canola and olive--and dressings containing them are the second best source - USDA
    >>>>
    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...itaminK/k.html
    >>>
    Food Serving Vitamin K (mcg)
    Olive oil 1 Tablespoon 6.6
    >>>
    From:
    http://www.medal.org/adocs/docs_ch12/doc_ch12.01.html
    olive oil 49 per 100 grams

    Peanut Butter
    http://www.coumadin.com/consumer/INT_VitaminK1.asp
    Peanut butter, smooth 6 Tbsp. 0.3
    Peanut butter 2.8 per oz.
    Peanut butter smooth 10 mcg per 100 gm

    Peaches
    http://www.coumadin.com/consumer/INT_VitaminK1.asp
    Peach, raw 1 medium 2.1
    Peach canned 70 mcg.
    Peaches raw 3 mcg

    Tomatoes - fresh - 1oz. - 1.8 mcg.
    tomatoes ripe raw per 100 gm 6 mcg
    tomatoes ripe raw 6 per 100 grams
    Tomato, red, raw, 1 tomato, 3
    Tomatoes, ripe, raw 6

    Walnuts 2.7 per 100 gm

  2. #2
    ccrawford Guest

    Default

    Hey Jim - If you've got the INR down to that much of a science, I'd like to talk to you about the Dow Jones Futures market !!!! You may be right on, my friend - if so you're blowing my mind. Chris

  3. #3
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    Are you treating your Olive Oil? Leaving it sit in the sunlight that is? Peanut butter will do some lowering but I think your running a combo there. I don't really think it's all that your eating, but something that your body is going through.

    Chris do you think we can get him to recommend something that would actually make money for us?

  4. #4
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    Default

    OK Jim-

    I bet you're an engineer, outside chance of being an accountant.

  5. #5
    nadi Guest

    Default low INR

    I personally think its the weather or Rain's dog is back in the flower beds

    My INR was 2.0 today also. No olive oil or peanut butter for me.
    Will give a green veggie or salad today and tomarrow.

  6. #6
    JimChicago Guest

    Default

    Chris - the best stock market technique I've heard of was to "buy low and sell high."

    Ross writes;
    >>>>
    Are you treating your Olive Oil? Leaving it sit in the sunlight that is? Peanut butter will do some lowering but I think your running a combo there. I don't really think it's all that your eating, but something that your body is going through.
    >>>>
    No - I've never heard of 'treating olive oil' - I keep it in the fridge. I'm eating better than I was after the surgery. Do you recommend leaving olive oil in the sunlight?

  7. #7
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    Expose your oil to sun or fluorescent light for 48 hours. That will destroy about 85% of the Vit K content of the oil. It doesn't need to be opened. It only need be in a clear container that light can get through to it.

    This comes from the Coumadin Cookbook.

  8. #8
    JimChicago Guest

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    Thanks Ross,
    I found that page in my copy of the Coumadin Cookbook -I'll be exposing olive to sunlight to treat it like they say.
    One odd thing I noticed in the 'cookbook' book - on page 19 they say canned peaches are a low source of vit. k and then in the chart at the end it say on page 416 that canned peach has 70 mcg of vit k (I wonder if this is a misprint).

  9. #9
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    Obviously mine says the samething. I think it is a misprint. I'll have to check some other charts, but I can't see how 1 oz of canned peaches can have 70 mcg of Vit K! Raw peach is only 2 so I can see canned in syrup as having maybe 7.

  10. #10
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    Post Getting Better

    Jim,

    Al Lodwick may come along and answer some of your questions, but in the meantime consider the lower INR a sign of your recovery from your surgery. Many of us, myself included, experienced lower INR's 3-6 months post-op. At about that time, we are feeling much better, we are much more active, and our body metabolizes the coumadin/warfarin much better.

    With that said, I wouldn't worry too much about your diet, and just take an increased dose if that is what your Doctor prescribes.
    Kristy S.
    AVR 6-19-01 (S.J. Mechanical)
    Centura Porter Hospital
    Dr. Brad Hofer (Surgeon)

  11. #11
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    Question Calculate every thing you put in your mouth?!

    I guess I might consider it, if I thought that was the only thing that influenced my readings... but I know its not. I?ve been on coumadin for 3 years, what I have learned is that exercise, stress, vacations, the dog sleeping in my flower beds, etc have as much impact on my INR as what I put in my mouth.

    Of course your body may be totally different. If so, you are one lucky duck.
    Rain
    MVR 4/6/00
    33mm St. Jude
    Denver, CO

    "enjoy the moment"

  12. #12
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    Devils advocate here: I tried to play the numbers game and it didn't work out at all for me. I just eat what I want, when I want and adjust from there. I was driving myself nuts.

  13. #13
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    Thumbs up Protime machine

    I do too, Ross. I eat all the wrong stuff. But I do try to do it CONSISTENTLY. And I thank my lucky stars for my protime machine so I can check it often as I feel I need to.

    I told my cardio one time that he was trying to put me in a rocking chair. lol That?s basically what he was telling me! "Be CONSISTENT Lorraine." Who the heck is consistent?! I got some living to get done, man, kids to raise, places to see, things to do........ not a lot of time for a rocking chair.

    Actually since I got my new machine my INR has been very consistent. Been taking my 3 mgs a day for months now.
    Rain
    MVR 4/6/00
    33mm St. Jude
    Denver, CO

    "enjoy the moment"

  14. #14
    ccrawford Guest

    Default

    OK Ross - I'll be the sucker. What the H___ is that in your avatar now ? Looks like a Moosebirdsnake. You been mixing up your drugs again ??? I need to call your therapist -- Bonnie, I need help ! Chris

  15. #15
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    Exclamation Ross?

    Is it a bird, with antlers, eating a snake..... ?
    Rain
    MVR 4/6/00
    33mm St. Jude
    Denver, CO

    "enjoy the moment"

  16. #16
    nadi Guest

    Question

    Chris,

    I'm glad you asked what it is because I wanted to.
    I don't see the snake I see a possum.
    So please Ross tell all of the inquiring minds

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    It's a chimera.

  18. #18
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    It's a Bird-Monkey-Moose hybrid. He may be ugly, but I think he's cute!

  19. #19
    Karlynn Guest

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    Looks like an Owlmonkey to me. Some creature from The Land that Time Forgot.

    Oh, the fabulous INR game. I went along for almost 12 years not worrying too much about it. Pretty much ate what I wanted, but kept salads and brocolli to a minimum, took a vitamin with some K, but not a lot. Then this last month my INR took a dip (1.5!) and my doctor got all worried because she said I was having to take "too much Coumadin" to keep at a theraputic level. So I stopped my vitamins (got tired immediately - almost), stopped eating anything green, only to find out it was a protein bar I'd just started using.

    So now I'm trying to get back on vitamins again. And the one I chose, even tho' Al took a look at it and didn't find anything to work against Coumadin, could possibly be lowering the INR. (3.0 not on vitamin, 2.4 after 5 days on vitamin and nothing green has entered my mouth!) So now my card. has me testing 2 times a week. So back to no vitamins to see if it was lowering the INR.

    Wish I'd stayed on my original vitamins and original eating and discovered immediately that it was the bars. Also, a big "thank you" to Al for reassuring me that there really isn't a chance of being on "too much Coumadin" if it keeps you theraputic.

    I love olive oil - don't use it excessively, so that's just going to have to be something that my Coumadin dose takes care of. No more allowing my Dr. to make me feel alarmed about taking too much Coumadin to stay theraputic. As long as I know I'm being sensible and being a good Coumadin user - the dose will be what it will be.


    Karlynn

  20. #20
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    Karlynn I changed him from a bird/monkey/moose to the Owl/Monkey/Jackelope this morning. Keeps things interesting.

    Do what you have to do to stay in range. You now know what some of the lurking interupters are and what you need to do to put a stop to the INR game. You will do well Young Grasshopper.

  21. #21
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    Karlynn:
    I bit my tongue and sat on my hands the last time that you posted that your cardiologist says your therapeutic dose of Coumadin is too high and that you must test twice a week. I was hoping that someone with more authority than yours truly would chime in. Your cardiologist does not know her asterisk from a hole in the ground. Let me clean that up to say, your cardiologist is severely misguided and ill informed when it comes to anticoagulation management. When she says your dose is too high, SHE IS WRONG. No if, ands, or butts! She is also wrong when she attributes the rise and fall of your INR to what you put in your mouth. Ask her if she knows that there are three types of Vitamin K. K-1 is found in food, especially green food. K-3 is synthetic K, often given when someone needs to lower the INR swiftly, as in the case of impending surgery. And then, there is K-2, which is manufactured right in our own bodies. In other words, we make our own Vitamin K. There are so many factors that contribute to an INR other than food, such as: changes in routine, exercise, the weather, sleep, tension, stress, other medical conditions, and Rain's dog. The cardiologist is BLAMING you and that is criminal!

    Also, testing twice a week is not effective. You'll wind up with an INR jumping up and down....not to mention the additional stress and worry one feels when their INR is out of range. Maybe you could get a second opinion from another cardiologist?

    Kind regards,
    Blanche

  22. #22
    Karlynn Guest

    Default Thanks

    Thanks Blanche,
    I'm somewhat coming to the realization you spoke of about my cardiologist, as far as her knowledge of Coumadin. I've gone to her for 5 years now. She was highly recommended by my original (well, not original, but the only one worth mentioning) cardiologist who I saw for 13 years pre and post valve replacement. I think she's having me test twice a week right now because she raised my dose to bump me up when my INR was 1.5. She increased my dose and it stayed low and that concerned us both. (thanks once again to those stupid protein bars!) Now that we've found the culprit, she wants to make sure my INR doesn't jump way up -my INR has never been all that stable, but this was the first time it went that low and stayed low. So this is the first time she's had me test this much. I usually test once a month. If I have to take antibiotics for some reason, I test a bit more often. But I expect to go back to my old schedule shortly.

    Fortunately, I have faith in her in many other ways. Lord knows I've seen my fair share of doctors in 18 years of heart troubles and she has proven herself in many ways. She'll listen willingly to me when I tell her about what I've learned from this group.

    Thanks for your concern.

    Karlynn

  23. #23
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    Twice a week really is overkill. It's better then 3 times a week, but once every week to two weeks would be fine.

  24. #24
    Karlynn Guest

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    Overkill...talk to my poor little fingers about overkill! I'm a music director for a church and part of my job involves playing piano. The lancets that QAS sends with my cuvettes seem to hurt more than the ones they use at the lab.

  25. #25
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    Just imagine if those were veinous draws instead of finger sticks. I know if it were me, I'd tell them no way and test no more then once a week.

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